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Re:Firing Frankness by bitwize on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @01:57PM (#18709416)
Iron rule of the corporate world: if you have a problem with your boss, or with something the boss likes and supports, from his end it's not a problem that can't be solved with a pink slip.

If you value being able to feed your family, learn to love your boss and his ideas.

Re:Firing Frankness by cbanek on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:12PM (#18709584)
I feel like it used to be this way, but in tech these days it seems the rule is speak your mind. If you get fired for ruffling feathers and are at least halfway competent, there are plenty of companies willing to scoop you up and pay you more money to do something more aligned to what you want. Although you should have probably just that done in the first place, without the feather ruffling.
Re:Firing Frankness by bitwize on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @09:33PM (#18712558)
I hear this on Hackernews a lot, one of the myths of our age: "Any halfway decent programmer should be able to just waltz right into their dream job." Must be nice. So what dies that make me, despite all my study and effort?
Re:Firing Frankness by wccrawford on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @01:58PM (#18709428)
" learn to love your boss and his ideas. "

Or at least learn to keep your mouth shut, no matter what anyone tells you to the contrary.

Re:Firing Frankness by dandellion on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:04PM (#18709490)
Or wait to open your mouth until you have something else lined up.
Re:Firing Frankness by LyndsySimon on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @03:07PM (#18710059)
You should always have something else lined up, even in the best of times :)
Re:Firing Frankness by LyndsySimon on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @03:06PM (#18710054)
> If you value being able to feed your family, learn to love your boss and his ideas.

I would modify this: "learn to support your boss, and make them look good in front of their peers."

I've had situations where my boss and I didn't get along.

In one case that led to a dismissal with a very comfortable severance, which I believe was because while I wasn't a good fit, my boss respected me and bore no ill will toward me.

In another case my boss was openly hostile to me even in front of my peers both inside and outside the organization almost from the first day; I survived about three years there because I was effective and did my best to keep our disagreements behind closed doors. Everyone knew that my boss and I didn't get along, but I did the job well and took every opportunity to make them good and make the best of their strategies and decisions. Over time I developed a reputation for having strong opinions, a strong personality, but being very easy to work with. I learned a lot during that time, built lifelong professional relationships, and believe that I changed a few lives through mentorship of those with less experience.

I will always be frank with my immediate boss; the cost of not doing so is too high for me. I'm also clear that I see my job as contributing to the company's success, and that I see their voice on my behalf as my most effective means of impacting the organization's direction. I recognize when I don't have the final say on something, and while I'll not pretend that I support something I don't, it's their job to determine strategy, not mine, and that I'll execute their strategy to the best of my ability and without grumbling about it - and without undermining them.

Of course there are some people who simply cannot accept that the people who report to them have opinions contrary to their own or believe that they are making a mistake. I don't want to work for those people. There are too many good jobs doing things that will change the world for me to spend my time being unhappy and working on something I don't think matters.

Re:Firing Frankness by Nasrudith on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @03:01PM (#18710009)
The thing is flattering egos of PHBs gives short term job security - success ensures the company will survive and no matter how much the PHB likes you he can't save you from the company facing bankruptcy.

Results are what matter and also build your value. Being known as the guy, gal or nonbinary who did X is way better than "just went along with using a massive spreadsheet as a database because the boss doesn't trust software he hasn't paid for and won't spend money on sonething he doesn't know how to use."

Re:Firing Frankness by JohnFen on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @05:27PM (#18711186)
"If you value being able to feed your family, learn to love your boss and his ideas."

Or, even better, find a position in a company where you don't have to "learn" those things.

Re:Firing Frankness by Tomte on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:01PM (#18709466)
Unless you live in a country with humane labor laws.

He can still make your work life difficult. But if he goes to far, HR has to consider that maybe he should leave, since they cannot make you leave without cause.

Re:Firing Frankness by baldfat on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:04PM (#18709488)
> Unless you live in a country with humane labor laws.

AT WILL STATE - I live in Pennsylvania and you can be fired for no reason. Sure you can sue and you might win but probably not. Why we allow these laws in a Democracy/Republic is mind blowing.

Re:Firing Frankness by LyndsySimon on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @03:08PM (#18710071)
> Why we allow these laws in a Democracy/Republic is mind blowing.

I disagree with your assessment, and fully support "at will" employment.

What is your perception as to how many people agree with you versus disagree?

Re:Firing Frankness by snaky on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:09PM (#18709546)
You are free to negotiate the reasons in your contract.
Re:Firing Frankness by paulie_a on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:46PM (#18709845)
A lot of people don't have contracts.
Re:Firing Frankness by JohnFen on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @05:29PM (#18711200)
I have never, and would never, work without a contract.
Re:Firing Frankness by snaky on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @06:21PM (#18711527)
You are free to negotiate it too.
Re:Firing Frankness by golemotron on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:07PM (#18709513)
Because you shouldn't be forced to work with people you don't want to work with?
Re:Firing Frankness by baldfat on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:17PM (#18709633)
Put the work into writing good company policy and less emotional policing.

So you "Don't want to work with a person" means you should be able to fire them for your emotional good? That sounds horribly selfish and an environment people wouldn't want to work in.

Re:Firing Frankness by golemotron on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:56PM (#18709950)
Maybe divorce should be illegal too, right? Do we call people who don't want to continue in a marriage selfish if they are looking out for their emotional good?

Most people spend more time with their coworkers than their spouse.

Re:Firing Frankness by Tomte on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @03:02PM (#18710014)
Surprisingly we have laws about divorce that are a bit more involved than "You. Leave. Now."

We even make ex-spouses pay support. Or let them live in the common house for a bit.

Re:Firing Frankness by dominotw on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @08:51PM (#18712377)
employees are not business partners. You can't say "You. Leave. Now." to your business partner.
Re:Firing Frankness by dominotw on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:07PM (#18709526)
> Why we allow these laws in a Democracy/Republic is mind blowing.

strong labor market and low unemployment.

Re:Firing Frankness by baldfat on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:13PM (#18709603)
That would mean even more strength to the labor?
Re:Firing Frankness by eikenberry on Tuesday December 18, 2018 @02:11PM (#18709579)
Or you can just fake it for a few months while you find a better position in your company or a new job.