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Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tomatotomato37 on Monday December 17, 2018 @01:47PM (#18701033)
Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by reaperducer on Monday December 17, 2018 @03:25PM (#18701859)
Apple has a very significant manufactoring presence in China, so unfortunately they can't cleanly separate from China like Google can without risking retaliation

Apple can walk away from China whenever it wants to. Apple is the one company in the entire world best equipped with the cash to make this kind of public stand. But it doesn't want to because doing so will cost a lot of that money.

The only thing stopping Apple from closing its Chinese stores, and moving manufacturing to another country is fear of the faceless shareholder bots that have no AI for morality, and will punish Apple for doing the right thing.

Every time I see Tim Cook on stage patting himself on the back for making some minor environmental improvement because it's the right thing to do, I can't help but think it's all a farce because incremental environmental improvements aren't even low-hanging fruit. They're the fruit that has already fallen from the tree and rolled through his front door into his kitchen.

If Mr. Cook and the rest of his company want to impress, then do something hard.

Disclosure: Apple shareholder, with morality, but not enough shares for Apple to care.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by CharlesW on Monday December 17, 2018 @04:00PM (#18702175)
> Apple can walk away from China whenever it wants to.

Not unless they've spent the last decade building a secret duplicate supply chain ecosystem.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by munk-a on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:04PM (#18702668)
It would take money and time but it's something they're very able to do. And, yes, they couldn't make this decision and instantly pivot, there are real physical things that would need to be built before they could.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by Apocryphon on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:24PM (#18702810)
If they can already spend all this effort into making alternate chipsets...
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by bitxbitxbitcoin on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:02PM (#18702644)
Complete with access to rare earth metal deposits that are currently secret from the world.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by kccqzy on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:40PM (#18702918)
Moving manufacturing out of China, either to another country with even cheaper labor costs, or back to the United States with automation is extremely hard. The whole ecosystem of manufacturing is centered in China. It's not a right thing from efficiency point of view not something consumers want.

See for example https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/15/business/apple-california...

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by patrickaljord on Monday December 17, 2018 @06:15PM (#18703163)
> Disclosure: Apple shareholder, with morality, but not enough shares for Apple to care.

If you really cared about this, shouldn't you sell your Apple stocks and invest in a company with morals compatible with yours instead? Otherwise, you're part of the problem as you're willing to profit from China just like Apple.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tivert on Monday December 17, 2018 @06:26PM (#18703242)
> If you really cared about this, shouldn't you sell your Apple stocks and invest in a company with morals compatible with yours instead? Otherwise, you're part of the problem as you're willing to profit from China just like Apple.

Actually, if you really cared about this, I think it'd be better buy more Apple stock and start making a fuss in their shareholder meetings.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by izacus on Monday December 17, 2018 @02:20PM (#18701327)
Ah well, it's fine to violate human rights if it costs you money then. And as long as you have an apple in the logo I guess?
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by yongjik on Monday December 17, 2018 @04:12PM (#18702263)
At the risk of sounding whataboutist, you could say the same thing for pretty much everything you buy, starting with your gas, electricity, and everything that's manufactured using them.

It doesn't absolve Apple or other companies (or me), but it does make Apple an odd target to fix on.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by longerthoughts on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:56PM (#18703029)
If you want to make a point about responsible corporate governance it probably does make sense to focus on one of the largest companies in the world, especially one with an exceptional amount of cash that makes it better prepared than others to suffer the consequences of a conscience-driven, money-losing decision.

The reality is there's no way the company can make that change on the basis of "it's the right thing to do" without also being able to convincingly argue that it's better for long term shareholder value.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tomatotomato37 on Monday December 17, 2018 @02:33PM (#18701436)
Hey, never said I didn't approve of China's shite privacy & labor laws. That's why I always thought any minimum wage or labor law needs an accompanying tariff, to prevent manufacturers from just making the situation worse by externalizing their shit overseas
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by frabbit on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:46PM (#18702957)
I like that idea. After briefly searching for possible discussion/implementation of it I was unable to find any. Do you have any useful keywords or phrases I could use for such searches?
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by tomatotomato37 on Monday December 17, 2018 @06:59PM (#18703415)
Unfortunately I don't; it's mostly a homebrewed concept after seeing too many arguments justifing outsourcing our everything because of high labor and environmental costs.

I don't care if your for or against those types of laws, but if we go through the legislative effort to give up the economical efficiency for the social good and pass those laws, than you damn well better contribute to said social good if you want to do business on our shores

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by frabbit on Friday December 21, 2018 @10:29PM (#18738744)
Makes sense to me.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by creato on Monday December 17, 2018 @03:14PM (#18701770)
This is exactly why companies shouldn't be involved with business in China.
Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by ggggtez on Monday December 17, 2018 @03:43PM (#18702000)
The only unique thing here is Google officially left China years ago, while other companies never did. Leaving China is a choice any company can make, and Apple could do it too. It's not like China is the only country in the world with workers or factories. Other countries would love for Apple to bring jobs to them.

The decision isn't free, and that is the problem everyone is pointing out. You can't expect companies to "do the right thing" when it gets in the way of profit. The only way to make that happen is to put massive PR pressure on them to do "the right thing" whatever you believe that to be.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by longerthoughts on Monday December 17, 2018 @06:03PM (#18703083)
>The only way to make that happen is to put massive PR pressure on them to do "the right thing" whatever you believe that to be.

Bad PR isn't enough. It takes convincing A LOT of customers to stop buying their products or convincing A LOT of shareholders to stop holding their stock. Public opinion is just a loose proxy for expected revenue - if revenue doesn't at least look like it might begin to significantly suffer, nothing is likely to change.

Re:Google’s Secret China Project “Effectively Ended” After I... by JohnJamesRambo on Monday December 17, 2018 @05:26PM (#18702820)
Sounds like a classic character test from mythology. Doing the right thing when it doesn't negatively affect you isn't really worth much.