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Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by microdrum on Friday December 07, 2018 @02:07PM (#18630545)
You're right. And I'm surprised more Silicon Valleyers have not figured out that China, a country that has concentration camps going right now is racist.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by yorwba on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:20PM (#18632221)
Yes, many people in China hold racist attitudes. No, those attitudes do not usually result in negative views on Westerners.

You're much more likely to hear negative comments about Uyghurs (terrorists), Tibetans (underdeveloped people who'll never make it at a university), South Koreans (obnoxious) and Japanese (the arch-enemy).

On the other hand, Westerners (whether black or white) are seen as exotic and high-status and their presence in China indicates how far the country has made it.

It's probably similar to European authors like Karl May (who'd never been to America) glorifying Native Americans as noble heroes, while Europeans who settled in America did their best to demonize and kill them. Simple tribalism: strangers from a distant land are exotic and no threat, but neighboring tribes that are only slightly different need to be shunned at all costs.

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by chibg10 on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:59PM (#18632492)
>On the other hand, Westerners (whether black or white) are seen as exotic and high-status and their presence in China indicates how far the country has made it.

This is an oversimplification. Westerners are seen as exotic and high-status as individuals, but (Han, at least) Chinese also see China as a civilization as the "the Middle Kingdom" (between Heaven and the rest of the world) and that the West is currently dominant in global affairs is an unnatural occurrence that China is destined and entitled to rectify.

The two are quite contradictory if you reflect on it at all, but most people in any country (whether China, America, Europe, or elsewhere) really all that reflectful in general so we are where we are.

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by yorwba on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:19PM (#18632586)
Sure, but that's nationalism, not racism. Wanting one's own country to be the best (at everything, or at least the most popular sport) is a pretty common view that doesn't necessarily require seeing the other countries' inhabitants as genetically inferior. As a historical example, the Sputnik shock and ensuing space race can be seen as an expression of the American expectation that the Soviet Union's dominance in space exploration was an unnatural occurrence that the US was destined and entitled to rectify.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by AlexCoventry on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:39PM (#18632684)
I think most Chinese haven't forgiven or forgotten about the Opium Wars.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by krapp on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:56PM (#18632782)
Do you have direct experience with Chinese nationals and Chinese culture that would lead you to know this, or are you perhaps projecting your own feelings about Western imperialism onto them?

It's not impossible, but it does seem a bit unlikely that most Chinese people are holding a grudge about the Opium Wars, or that you would know what most Chinese think. Perhaps you meant to say you believe most Chinese shouldn't forgive or forget about the Opium Wars?

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by AlexCoventry on Friday December 07, 2018 @07:44PM (#18633041)
Direct experience, but it's not hard to find public supporting evidence, either.

https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-...

[dead]
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by IOT_Apprentice on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:26PM (#18632259)
Same thing with some Indians in Silicon Valley. See eBay and PayPal as prime examples. That said there are enclaves within some companies of teams that are 90% one ethnicity be it Chinese, Indian, Eastern European or Israeli. Sort of the technology version of prisons being segregated ethnically. Really weird.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by markdown on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:17PM (#18632574)
> That said there are enclaves within some companies of teams that are 90% one ethnicity be it Chinese, Indian, Eastern European or Israeli.

But the most common scenario (90% white US-born male) isn’t as weird?

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by chadAnon69 on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:23PM (#18632609)
Considering the US is, you know, the US and a majority white country, it's not weird at all.

Indians and chinese make up something like 5% of the US population so for them to take up 90% of a select group can really only be caused by favoritism. Unless you want to open up the can of worms that certain races are just so far genetically superior in terms of intelligence that they are 20x more represented

Do you think it's normal for tech companies located in India and China to have parts of their company that are 90% white?

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by tim333 on Saturday December 08, 2018 @12:13PM (#18636227)
It doesn't have to be genetics or favouritism. It's most likely cultural stuff.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by verroq on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:30PM (#18632285)
Sorry those camps are miserable but they aren’t concentration camps. The word concentration camp has a specific connotation with the extermination camps build to kill Jews and other undesirable under Nazi Germany i.e. genocide. To conflate the two here like many people conflate Japanese internment camps with “concentration camps” is so off the scale it is at least misleading and at worst grossly insensitive.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by dang on Saturday December 08, 2018 @03:15AM (#18634398)
Would you please stop posting inflammatory, unsubstantive comments? Nitpicking plus Nazis equals particularly pointless.

Edit: you've been posting a lot of flamewar comments lately (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18620146), and we've already asked you not to. If you keep doing it, we're going to ban your account.

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by verroq on Sunday December 09, 2018 @09:23AM (#18640958)
You gotta stop selectively enforcing moderation. The person who said China has concentration camps and is now somehow racist isn’t being inflammatory? A few threads back when the Christian missionary got killed by the natives the entire comment section was a leftist circlejerk. The flamewar was already burning when I got here, and there is no discussion. I guess I shouldn’t start dropping out shitposts but I don’t feel particularly bad when the entire comment section is already beyond saving. I shall refrain in the future and just flag instead.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by seanmcdirmid on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:36PM (#18632327)
That isn’t true. The first concentration camps were used against the Boers by the British, for which the term was coined. Definition:

> a place where large numbers of people, especially political prisoners or members of persecuted minorities, are deliberately imprisoned in a relatively small area with inadequate facilities, sometimes to provide forced labor or to await mass execution.

The most famous usage was by Germans and is heavily associated with extermination, but the British just wish to deprive the Boer’s of support and to put pressure on them into surrendering. Hence the term “concentration” rather than “extermination”. Many Boers did wind up dying due to inadequate sanitation and food, but the point wasn’t to kill them.

Whether the camps in Xinjiang are concentration camps or not remains to be seen. Definitely some of the awful work camps in China in the 70s met the threshold.

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by verroq on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:49PM (#18632427)
The meaning the words change with context. Much like the way the Swastika is no longer recognised in the western world as a Hindu peace symbol. My point is that the modern usage of concentration camp is the extermination camps of Nazi Germany, which is obviously not what’s happening in China.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by roymurdock on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:55PM (#18632465)
They're extrajudicial camps used to punish and re educate people, the semantics aren't as important as the reality of the chinese government rounding up, imprisoning, and torturing an ethnic group of "muslim terrorists"
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by seanmcdirmid on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:59PM (#18632485)
I don’t think that is modern usage at all. The dictionaries haven’t been updated, at least.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by verroq on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:42PM (#18632705)
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/concentration-camp

"a guarded prison camp in which nonmilitary prisoners are held, esp one of those in Nazi Germany in which millions were exterminated"

"A place for assembling and confining political prisoners and enemies of a nation. Concentration camps are particularly associated with the rule of the Nazis in Germany, who used them to confine millions of Jews (see also Jews) as a group to be purged from the German nation. Communists, Gypsies, homosexuals, and other persons considered undesirable according to Nazi principles, or who opposed the government, were also placed in concentration camps and eventually executed in large groups. ( See Holocaust.)"

Particularly associated

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by seanmcdirmid on Friday December 07, 2018 @07:52PM (#18633079)
Yes. Note the “particularly associated” with but lack of extermination as a requirement in the definition. The word in neither definition is limited to those cases, and concentration camp has been used to describe situations post 1945 that are unrelated to genocide.

The debate on the word is also well known, from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment:

> As a result, some[who?] say that today the term "concentration camp" may be conflated with the concept of "extermination camp" and historians debate whether the term "concentration camp" or "internment camp" should be used in order to describe other examples of civilian internment, such as the United States government's internment of Japanese Americans during World War II,[4] the Australian government's immigrant detention facilities,[25][26] and South Korea's detention camps for "undesirables" in the 1970s and 1980s.[27]

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by dragonwriter on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:43PM (#18632382)
> Sorry those camps are miserable but they aren’t concentration camps.

Yes they are.

> The word concentration camp has a specific connotation with the extermination camps build to eliminate (aka kill) Jews and other undesirable under Nazi Germany.

Those are the most well-known concentration camps to many people today, but the term is older, going back to Spanish practice in Cuba in the Ten Years War and popularized for British camps in the Boer War.

Extermination camps are a distinct subcategory of concentration camp, and have a unique name specifically because their nature is not fully captured by “concentration camp” (which in their case was—somewhat amazingly for a title that even before that was typically associated with things that by modern standards would be grave human rights abuses—was actually a consciously used as a deceptive euphemism.)

> To conflate the two here like many people conflate Japanese internment camps with “concentration camps” is so off the scale it borders on misleading.

“internment camp” is a synonym for “concentration camp” and those operated by the US for the Japanese were exactly concentration camps in the usual sense of the word.

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by verroq on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:52PM (#18632447)
Sure but concentration camp does not have the same historic meaning that any more the Swastika has its historic meaning in the Western world. They may be concentration camps by their old definition but the using the word immediately draws to the most well known usage. The Japanese and Ughur camps may be miserable but it isn’t genocide.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by jbay808 on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:59PM (#18632801)
I think the meaning of "concentration camp" hasn't changed, actually. How come you seem so certain that it has? Most of the time when concentration camps appear in the news, they are often not of the Holocaust variety.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by verroq on Friday December 07, 2018 @07:24PM (#18632911)
I think internment camps is a more apt description without invoking some implicit notion of genocide in this case.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by yourbandsucks on Friday December 07, 2018 @02:37PM (#18630815)
Maybe overlaying a specific tiny-slice-of-America worldview to a billion people on the other side of the world is a little bit... lossy. Just food for thought.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by mb_72 on Friday December 07, 2018 @03:29PM (#18631307)
Not in this case. China, Japan, Thailand - all countries where no matter how well you speak the language, know the culture or how much you spend creating companies that employ locals, you will always be a foreigner and 'less than' someone born in those countries. On looks alone, you will never truly fit in. Compare and contrast to the USA, Australia etc, where no-one can tell you are not a citizen by simply looking at you.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by throwaway5yiu on Friday December 07, 2018 @04:14PM (#18631745)
And yet as a minority in America, I constantly get asked, “where are you really from?”
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by InterestBazinga on Friday December 07, 2018 @04:27PM (#18631851)
There is a difference between asking people's or parent's origin, and concentration camps over person's religion / ethnicity.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by techVentureStar on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:30PM (#18632283)
A lot of black people do live segregated areas in usa. Just listen to serial podcast season3. Cleveland sounds like a concentration camp for black ppl.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by sheepmullet on Friday December 07, 2018 @05:40PM (#18632364)
I’m not sure if you are joking or not but Cleveland is nothing like a concentration or re-education camp.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by sheepmullet on Friday December 07, 2018 @06:33PM (#18632652)
> contrast to the USA, Australia etc, where no-one can tell you are not a citizen by simply looking at you.

Yes America, Australia, the UK, etc are all running a great experiment to see if multiculturalism can work.

The rest of the world might follow if multiculturalism ever ends up working.

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by moosey on Friday December 07, 2018 @04:15PM (#18631757)
I'll make that comparison.

http://www.wbtv.com/2018/11/27/desert-detention-camp-migrant...

And if you think this policy isn't racist, then you haven't heard of the "Mexican Repatriation" in the 30's. And then when after WW2, Mexicans who were promised citizenship were again denied.

Or we can look at this:

https://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Our prison system, man.

And of course, you can say this is whataboutism, but you asked for a contrast and compare. The US is horrid when it comes to race.

Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by wetpaws on Friday December 07, 2018 @04:23PM (#18631819)
That does not make China less racist.
Re:American Entrepreneurs Who Flocked to China Are Heading H... by yourbandsucks on Friday December 07, 2018 @04:40PM (#18631956)
Ok, so we're expanding from stereotyping 1.4B to an even 2B now?

Irony is dead.

Applying American conceptions of racism to Asia is ignorant, full stop.