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Re:Web.dev by Google by partiallypro on Monday November 12, 2018 @04:22PM (#18435970)
Google's pagespeed service is hot garbage. You can do things that make the page load significantly slower and get a perfect score than if you had a lower pagespeed score with a much faster page load.

I also find it strange how I can get an A on every other page speed service, including GTMetrix, but get an F on Google's tes(s). Totally useless.

Re:Web.dev by Google by rocky1138 on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:29PM (#18436573)
Google Pagespeed once recommended that I enable gzip compression on an embedded Google map.

https://johnrockefeller.net/google-pagespeed-_/

Re:Web.dev by Google by arkitaip on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:36PM (#18436635)
Most performance profilers will penalize you for embedding Google Analytics and Google Fonts because they have poor caching settings. What's so important about those resources that they can't be cached for longer periods?
Re:Web.dev by Google by hrrsn on Monday November 12, 2018 @08:35PM (#18437662)
I’ve always loved how Google’s own performance profiler marks you down for Analytics/Doubleclick caching.
Re:Web.dev by Google by jefftk on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:00AM (#18440324)
There are two main reasons why short caching is helpful on tag scripts:

* Faster iteration time for developers: the more often you release updates the faster you can move. If your script has a one week cache lifetime then there's not much point in daily releases and any experiments you run will be really skewed.

* Quicker response to problems: if we push out a bad update that gets past our testing, the TTL we serve it with determines how long that will stick around in browser caches.

(Disclosure: I work at Google, on ads JS, and I previously worked on mod_pagespeed. Not speaking for Google, just myself.)

Re:Web.dev by Google by tehlike on Monday November 12, 2018 @07:45PM (#18437391)
Easier bug fix presumably. Meaning if there is a bad release url is cached for little. If urls were versioned and were changable by google, it would have been done.

https://www.google-analytics.com/analytics.js

Google cannot bust this in case of a bug. They can mitigate this by having a loader with built in functionality that always looks out for "is there a newer version" but that has its limitations.

Re:Web.dev by Google by gondo on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:40PM (#18436665)
tracking
Re:Web.dev by Google by jopsen on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:55PM (#18436763)
https://developers.google.com/fonts/faq#what_does_using_the_...

I'm no lawyer, but I read that as it is not used for tracking users.

(full disclosure: I work at Google, on something unrelated)

Re:Web.dev by Google by PavlovsCat on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @05:03AM (#18439890)
I see no explanation given why an asset that never changes would need to be requested once a day, and they clearly state they do record it.

> We only [sic] see 1 CSS request per font family, per day, per browser. Google Fonts logs records of the CSS and the font file requests, and access to this data is kept secure.

I read that as what's written there. It's for tracking. Tracking popularity is still tracking.

Re:Web.dev by Google by jopsen on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @10:21AM (#18441593)
> Tracking popularity is still tracking.

Tracking usually refers to tracking users, which as I read the FAQ isn't what it's for.

Re:Web.dev by Google by PavlovsCat on Wednesday November 14, 2018 @02:49AM (#18448268)
They take and keep the tracking data. What they say they use it for doesn't change that. If they simply incremented a counter the bit about "keeping access to the data secure" would make no sense.
Re:Web.dev by Google by philtar on Monday November 12, 2018 @06:28PM (#18436958)
Do you have a guess why those assets are not cached more aggressively?
Re:Web.dev by Google by jopsen on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @10:28AM (#18441645)
As I read the FAQ, the actual font files are aggressively cached. It's only the CSS files that links to the font files that aren't cached forever.

Probably to allow for updates and estimate popularity, with low overhead assuming CSS files are small.

Re:Web.dev by Google by fantyoon on Monday November 12, 2018 @07:26PM (#18437263)
This is a complete guess but I suppose one request everyday would be enough to get atleast some idea of how popular any given font is. The page says its to keep them updated but I highly doubt that would be the reason.
Re:Web.dev by Google by outside1234 on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @12:14AM (#18438778)
So it’s tracking then
Re:Web.dev by Google by jefftk on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @07:00AM (#18440323)
While I don't know anything about fonts stuff, successful execution of the ad tag leads to an ad request, and this happens on every page view which has the script and not just the ones where the file has fallen out of cache. So there's no additional useful information Google would get from a low cache lifetime for the script.

The script request is to a cookiless domain for performance, unlike the ad request, so there's not even much useful information on that request.

(Disclosure: I work at Google, on ads JS, and I previously worked on mod_pagespeed. Not speaking for Google, just myself.)

Re:Web.dev by Google by m3nu on Monday November 12, 2018 @07:35PM (#18437322)
Doesn't work against my S3-hosted static site?

"Error: 500 from Lighthouse API: Internal Server Error"

Re:Web.dev by Google by foxylad on Monday November 12, 2018 @08:00PM (#18437475)
Same for my Cloudflare-fronted Appengine site.
Re:Web.dev by Google by vinniejames on Monday November 12, 2018 @08:38PM (#18437681)
Same on multiple domains, I think their site is broken
Re:Web.dev by Google by zwaps on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @05:48AM (#18440054)
Same here, custom hosted website.
Re:Web.dev by Google by jansan on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @05:07AM (#18439905)
On our website Google's pagespeed mainly complained about the Google Analytics snippets.
Re:Web.dev by Google by rawoke083600 on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @01:30AM (#18439070)
I agree it's not perfect! But my view is that if they(Google) did the effort todo pagespeed, then lighthouse, then integrate lighthouse in Chrome.. and now in a separate website... Some of the metrics must be import for your rankings/site - even if only indirectly (slow site etc)
Re:Web.dev by Google by billyhoffman on Monday November 12, 2018 @04:28PM (#18436021)
Isn't GTMetrix just a combined Page Speed Insights and YSlow audit?
Re:Web.dev by Google by josefresco on Tuesday November 13, 2018 @10:03AM (#18441436)
I never pay attention to the "grades" only the data, especially the waterfall graph/data. The grades are ridiculous, and mostly meant to cause alarm. You can score 100/100 on almost every test, but get a "D" overall because you scored poorly on 1 or 2 tests. It's great tool for techs, but in the hands of a client almost every result/score appears terrible.
Re:Web.dev by Google by partiallypro on Monday November 12, 2018 @06:20PM (#18436922)
It uses an older version of Pagespeed, yes.
Re:Web.dev by Google by wild_preference on Monday November 12, 2018 @04:38PM (#18436115)
Meh, these tests are just good ways to find obvious problems with your site.

Fixating on the overall score seems like an indication of a different problem.

For example, you can't change the caching behavior of google-analytics.js, and it's usually intractable to split apart your CSS to optimize for above-the-fold content. Oh well, you didn't get a perfect score. Stay practical.

Re:Web.dev by Google by partiallypro on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:34PM (#18436613)
Try selling that to a client that keeps using the test against a site that is A rated everywhere else because Google's brand has fooled them into thinking a perfect score means better SEO.
Re:Web.dev by Google by wild_preference on Monday November 12, 2018 @07:50PM (#18437424)
Right, that would be an example of a "different problem."

I'd be hard pressed to let stupid things client/managers can do direct how this sort of tool should work. For example, it'd be silly to demand "score inflation" just because your client is unreasonable. Or rather, if a client is making your life hard, I don't think it's the world that needs to change.

What's your solution if your client measures your success by punching their website into https://www.worthofweb.com/calculator/? And doesn't take you seriously enough to listen to you in general?

Re:Web.dev by Google by savethefuture on Monday November 12, 2018 @06:01PM (#18436799)
This is a problem we run into, clients will run their site through a speed tester then give us a list of things to fix...without having a clue of what the ratings and results even mean.
Re:Web.dev by Google by arkitaip on Monday November 12, 2018 @05:38PM (#18436645)
True. This is like when movie studios start obsessing about the Metacritic ranking on their movies instead of focusing on the quality of the movies.