VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K: source

Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by notafraudster on Thursday November 08, 2018 @08:25PM (#18411684)

I think there's a great deal of uncertainty about whether lithium ion is the right solution or whether we'll be able to online solid-state batteries or other alternatives. So it's a situation where if lithium ion persists, Tesla gets huge dividends for early investment, and if alternatives come online, others get in on the ground floor and have a fighting shot. I have no idea how feasible non-LI batteries are in the medium future.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by r00fus on Thursday November 08, 2018 @08:39PM (#18411753)

Well that's a nice diversion however do we have any credible hint that solid state batteries are a) viable and b) mass producible ?

It's not like the late 00s where SSDs were viable but deemed not yet cost effective. Solid state batteries IIRC don't even have a proof of concept much less any adoption.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by coryrc on Thursday November 08, 2018 @08:34PM (#18411729)

There is not uncertainty. Film-produced cells are sufficiently cost-effective now and their price is still dropping.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by prostoalex on Thursday November 08, 2018 @09:32PM (#18411966)

How many other automakers are investing deeply into materials research? Toyota and Honda seem to be playing with fuel cells, everyone else in the latest headlines is just laying off people and trimming the product lines.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by ilikehurdles on Friday November 09, 2018 @09:23AM (#18414518)

https://www.greentechmedia.com/amp/article/wv-quantumscape-i...

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2018/06/volkswagen-test...

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2015...

I’m sure there’s more but manufacturer after manufacturer is buying, investing in, poaching from, and acquiring EV/battery tech.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by blackstrips on Thursday November 08, 2018 @08:54PM (#18411816)

Hydrogen fuel cells are lurking in the background too - and you don’t have to spend hours charging those.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by de_watcher on Friday November 09, 2018 @06:56AM (#18413821)

Overall hydrogen's efficiency is pretty bad (I've watched a convincing yt video): production, transportation, filling stations, car engine.

Having electric plugs in supermarkets and doing some 15min breaks when using highways - that's already good enough.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by 666lumberjack on Friday November 09, 2018 @08:01AM (#18414027)

Good enough for 99% of civilian cars, maybe, but I'm a lot more skeptical about the ability of battery-electric power to replace trains, long-haul trucks, etc. The expectation as far as range for those is high enough that enough batteries would either add too much weight or just flat-out not fit.

I expect long-term we'll probably settle on something like 75% batteries / 25% hydrogen for ground transportation, and the reverse of that ratio for aircraft (although I wouldn't expect hydrogen planes to be using fuel cells).

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by rusticpenn on Friday November 09, 2018 @08:31AM (#18414176)

Trains? I hope that one day we see electric trains...

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by jhayward on Friday November 09, 2018 @10:14AM (#18414950)

I'm not sure what you mean. There have been electric trains for nearly 100 years. I mean, ever heard of the TGV?

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by gamblor956 on Friday November 09, 2018 @11:53AM (#18415816)

I've taken an electric train to work every day for the past year and a half...

Most of the new light rail and subway lines in the US are electric trains.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by tonyedgecombe on Friday November 09, 2018 @08:20AM (#18414120)

Trains don't really need it as you can just string up some overhead cables. Long haul freight should be on the railway anyway.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by 666lumberjack on Friday November 09, 2018 @02:00PM (#18416918)

Electrification is great, but it's also been declining for decades in the US, to less than one percent of route miles.

Taking a figure of half a million dollars per mile (which is less than the numbers I could find, but let's be conservative) you're looking at ~130 billion dollars. That's theoretically affordable for the government, maybe, but never going to happen politically speaking.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by nradov on Friday November 09, 2018 @09:13AM (#18414432)

Hydrogen is not viable. Production is inefficient, energy density is low, and handling is difficult. For long-range transportation where batteries are insufficient the real alternative will be carbon neutral synthetic liquid fuel.

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by spacenick88 on Friday November 09, 2018 @02:06PM (#18416974)

Well as for trains you can still run them using wires, almost the entire European railway network is electrified

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Re:VW plans to sell electric Tesla rival for less than $23K:... by cies on Friday November 09, 2018 @10:20AM (#18415015)

Boats, seaships, airplanes, rockets... Big-F'in'-Rockets!

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