Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by distant_hat on Saturday October 27, 2018 @01:18AM
(#18314463)
All tenure does is largely protect you from getting fired. They can still do a fair amount of damage though you still have employment. Lab space can be reduced, it can get harder to get approvals for research, decreased funding etc.
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Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by Fomite on Saturday October 27, 2018 @01:47AM
(#18314530)
It's not a deflector shield, but "Protects you from getting fired" is, itself, a powerful tool. Especially at public universities with potentially hostile legislatures/boards of regents.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by Kiro on Saturday October 27, 2018 @06:26AM
(#18315164)
In many other countries you can not fire someone by default (it's illegal) so calling it a powerful tool sounds wrong.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by testvox on Saturday October 27, 2018 @09:35AM
(#18315628)
In what country can you not fire your own employees?
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by zmk_ on Saturday October 27, 2018 @11:28AM
(#18316154)
In Sweden you cannot fire people on permanent contracts (that you need to give after 2 years) if you still require their work, i.e., you cannot fire someone without cause and then hire someone else to their exact job. In the Netherlands it is also extremely difficult to get rid of an employee with a permanent contract that you need to eventually give to them. In all cases I personally know of, permanent contract employees were basically paid by the company to agree to leave.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by testvox on Saturday October 27, 2018 @01:35PM
(#18316774)
Does this not create an incentive for companies to rotate through short term workers rather than keep anyone on for more than 2 years?
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by Kiro on Sunday October 28, 2018 @06:52AM
(#18320083)
The 2 years is an extreme if you abuse the system. Standard is 6 month probation and then your employment becomes permanent.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by geofft on Saturday October 27, 2018 @10:13AM
(#18315754)
Tenure doesn't prevent you from being fired ever; it just requires a process to determine that you are being fired for cause. That is already the case for all workers in countries without US-style at-will employment.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by mundacho on Saturday October 27, 2018 @12:20PM
(#18316396)
In Bolivia, there’s a right to “job stability” in the constitution written in 2008. Supreme Court here interpreted it as “right not to be fired”. There is precedent of people complaining to the ministry of labour asking to be hired again after getting fired and getting away with it. It’s stupid, but it’s a counter example.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by lixtra on Saturday October 27, 2018 @10:15AM
(#18315758)
For example german academics suffer from the fact that they have to change state after some years. Short term contracts can only be prolonged so long. After that you get a permanent position which university rarely wants. Therefore they tell you good bye. And that is because it’s almost impossible to fire someone with a permanent position. (Not the best source: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/unijobs/article/academi...)
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by mschuster91 on Saturday October 27, 2018 @01:16PM
(#18316685)
In what country can you not fire your own employees?
In Germany, you need strong reasons to fire an employee: intentionally causing accidents/damage, theft and other felonies related to your work (so, no firing your employee for drunk driving off the job) or failure to improve performance. The other thing is due to closing of the department or the location or the company going bankrupt, but these cases are often enough fought over in court and especially if the company is not bankrupt it's difficult to get someone fired.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by testvox on Saturday October 27, 2018 @01:32PM
(#18316765)
Very interesting, honestly I prefer the American system where you can be fired at any time but if fired without cause you are entitled to continue receiving some portion of your paycheck from unemployment insurance.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by mschuster91 on Saturday October 27, 2018 @05:59PM
(#18317932)
The problem here is that you need to be able to afford the lawyer, the time for the court proceedings etc. in order to get said money.
Which means: those hit the most hard by "fire at will" are the poorest.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by testvox on Friday November 02, 2018 @02:31PM
(#18365463)
So if I am an employer in Germany and I fire an employee for misconduct but he claims I fired him for no reason how is the dispute resolved?
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by Sharlin on Saturday October 27, 2018 @11:29AM
(#18316156)
In many (most?) European countries you cannot legally fire an employee at will. There needs to be a process, and the employer has to be able to show that the employee cannot or will not perform even adequately (or actively harms the employer eg. by stealing), cannot be trained or reassigned to a more suitable position.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by pjmlp on Saturday October 27, 2018 @11:33AM
(#18316171)
Countries where unions and work laws actually work, like many European ones.
Sure firing is still possible, but be ready to prove in court it was done properly.
Quick firing like in US, only if it was something really bad and even then, a notice period might be required.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by intertextuality on Saturday October 27, 2018 @10:16AM
(#18315763)
Let’s not engage in Whataboutism. We’re talking about the US, specifically. In the US, specifically, being tenured and having protection against being fired is a powerful tool.
It's still a powerful tool in any country regardless if it's the default or not.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by Kiro on Sunday October 28, 2018 @06:55AM
(#18320089)
It's not a tool. It's a basic human right.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by afarrell on Saturday October 27, 2018 @05:40AM
(#18315043)
"At the University of Florida, our professors do fearless research" -- title to a piece by the UoF PR department, milking an easy win for all it's worth.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by avip on Saturday October 27, 2018 @09:56AM
(#18315695)
“Even when they have no skin in the game”
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by tinus_hn on Saturday October 27, 2018 @08:28AM
(#18315437)
You can’t eat PR.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by simongr3dal on Saturday October 27, 2018 @10:21AM
(#18315780)
You can't eat dermatology products either.
I don't think it is reasonable to require research conclusions to be censored or changed just because big money is involved.
Why don't the opposition fund some independent research or independent replication study if they believe so strongly that this research needs to be shown incorrect.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by drb91 on Saturday October 27, 2018 @03:15AM
(#18314699)
Surely you can leverage your quality research to find better funding. If anything, situations like this should actually help your career—what better signal you’ve found a good vein of research?
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by thaumasiotes on Saturday October 27, 2018 @04:23AM
(#18314849)
> If anything, situations like this should actually help your career—what better signal you’ve found a good vein of research?
How'd it go for Charles Murray?
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by drb91 on Saturday October 27, 2018 @06:31PM
(#18318068)
Not the same situation—he lost status on the strength of his work.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by fjsolwmv on Saturday October 27, 2018 @07:44AM
(#18315330)
He had a long and successful career under the patronage of eugenicists and scientific racists who hung on to obsolete ideas after their time had past.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by maehwasu on Saturday October 27, 2018 @09:42AM
(#18315644)
I'm not sure that knee-jerkingly smearing him (by association) as a racist eugenicist quite disproves the point that tenure is not protection from misguided attacks.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by danharaj on Saturday October 27, 2018 @10:45AM
(#18315883)
Shockingly, very few things protect you from people saying bad things about you on the Internet.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by angrow on Saturday October 27, 2018 @02:55PM
(#18317151)
No need to turn to his associations for evidence, you're free to read his work and judge for yourself.
Re:Some private equity firms are furious over a paper in a d...
by Viliam1234 on Sunday October 28, 2018 @04:55PM
(#18323129)
The whole point of character assassination is to make people less likely to actually read it.