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Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by skrebbel on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:07PM (#18241779)
How is tipping at a sit down restaurant not a relic of slavery? The idea that restaurant personnel earn so little that they need to live on tips is barbarous.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by sillyquiet on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:09PM (#18241808)
Yet strangely, the loudest voices AGAINST doing away with tipping in favor of a wage are often wait staff themselves.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by acheron on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:14PM (#18241880)
That's because it would make it harder for them to continue committing tax fraud.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by dpiers on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:35PM (#18242179)
Part of it is the waitstaff avoiding tax on tips, the other part is that it allows the business to avoid payroll tax on the majority of waitstaff's earnings. In order to get a waiter to an effective $10/hr after-tax income you'd have to pay $15-16/hr versus $2+$8 in tips.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by beatgammit on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:32PM (#18245474)
That doesn't make any sense. Who's paying 37% taxes as a waiter/waitress? Even before Trump's tax cut, wait staff would still likely be in the 10-15% bracket, and you'd add on 12.5% FICA taxes. And this is after deductions, so effective tax rate will be much lower. Unless your state has 20+% income tax, there's no way a waitress is paying 35%.

Corporate taxes don't factor in either because they are only on profit over and above all expenses. Increasing wages of an employee and shifting payment from tips to w2 income merely ensures the employee pays the taxes they should've be paying in the first place and will not increase corporate taxes.

If wait staff shifted to higher wages, the employer would increase prices and could note on the menu that tipping is not necessary, but appreciated. If that was the case, I would still tip, but only for above average service.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by EpicEng on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:47PM (#18242332)
The vast majority of tips these days are paid via cc, so no, not it at all.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by i88y6 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:08PM (#18242601)
And it would dismantle the sexist construct that allows attractive women to claim disproportionately higher wages than men.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by mactrey on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:50PM (#18243057)
It's not really a sexist construct since an attractive man easily makes more in tips than an unattractive woman... It's more the societal construct that attractive = good, which is pernicious but quite deeply ingrained in human society.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by dragonwriter on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:29PM (#18242095)
There's a bit of survivorship bias; those who don't do well on tips don't last in tipped industries, both because tips are a big part of income and because tips are used as performance metrics.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by codemac on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:17PM (#18241912)
Have you ever worked at a restaurant or in a tipped position?

It constitutes a HUGE part of your take home pay for two reasons:

- If you are a waiter, tips will be multiples of your hourly pay.

- Tips will be under the table, saving you another ~25% easily.

So if you make a tipped hourly wage in Ohio:

- $4.15/hr * 7 hour shift (5pm open to 12pm close): 29.05

- Wait 6 tables, each with 3 seated parties, that tip you each $10: $60 * 3 = $120

Tips represent 4x of your salary. If your job gave you an untaxed 400% bonus at the end of every day, would you vote against it?

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by sureaboutthis on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:05PM (#18242569)
Thank you for showing that. Most people don't understand these things.

My son was a waiter and did very well for himself while in school. Far better than working in my fast food restaurant when he was younger and I paid more than minimum wage.

Given the choice, I had several staff quit on me because they got a waitressing job and getting tips to make more money was the reason. I had several waitresses tell me that was the reason they would not work for me.

My son always tips 20% or more, no matter the service, because he was a waiter once. I tell him he's foolish as I tip 15% for good service and adjust up/down accordingly.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by kazinator on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:37PM (#18242200)
> If your job gave you an untaxed 400% bonus at the end of every day, would you vote against it?

I'd be rather more worried about getting caught by the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by awalton on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:57PM (#18242468)
If you're getting audited when you're working at or near the poverty line, the world's fucking broken. There are billionaires out there running around paying next to no taxes because they just don't feel like it and the IRS hardly ever shows up at their doors. They only like to stick it to the millionaires - especially celebrities and other "rags to riches" stories - since that "sends a message" to us work-a-day salaried folk not to get too shifty with the IRS.

If the IRS went on a crusade against underreported tips, there would be an absolute bloodbath in the poorer parts of this country, as tips easily represent more of their income than wages. Fortunately untaxed tips have dropped dramatically now that fewer and fewer people are using cash for transactions, so the IRS has had to take no such corrective actions.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by fireflash38 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:37PM (#18242198)
> - $4.15/hr * 7 hour shift (5pm open to 12pm close): 29.05

Shouldn't you compare to the minimum wage at least? Or you could compare to a standard wage similar to what would be paid in other countries.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by mikestew on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:46PM (#18242310)
Shouldn't you compare to the minimum wage at least?

Not in the state of Ohio, apparently. In many states, waitstaff can be paid below minimum wage, because tips!

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by MrEfficiency on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:26PM (#18242030)
This seems like such a non-issue, I'm not sure why articles are written about tipping.

Wait staff love tips because it gets them paid significantly more than if they worked a retail job.

After visiting Europe, tips are necessary for good service. The rudeness and lack of service was culture shock.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by eesmith on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:56PM (#18242448)
While my experience in Europe has been just fine, in Italy, Germany, and the UK. Though in the UK I was confused about the lack of service, until I realized that I needed to order at the bar.

There is a stereotype that blacks are worse tippers than whites. As https://www.ebony.com/news-views/are-black-people-really-bad... comments, it might be because blacks have "Insufficient education about tipping", or "a loop of circular behavior where Blacks have been traditionally discriminated against, Blacks expect to be treated poorly and treat servers with disdain, servers treat Black patrons with less care because they “know” Blacks tip poorly, and Blacks continue to tip poorly because they continue to get substandard service." (there are a couple of other proposed reasons).

See for example http://www.tippingresearch.com/uploads/JFSBR_race_revision_a... which includes the quote “I will not take Black tables unless I have no other option; call me racist, but I also walk out with more money than the people who end up with them.”

Yes, if you are a black American, you might get rudeness and lack of service in service in your own country - because wait staff think you won't tip well.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by em500 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:52PM (#18242394)
Visit Japan next time and you'd conclude that tips are not necessary for good service after all.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by Symbiote on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @05:58PM (#18244230)
Appropriate behaviour of the waiter differs significantly in America compared to most of Europe.

Over here, more than a single interruption ("is everything OK?") is intrusive. Fake smiles and fake enthusiasm aren't desirable either.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by Xixi on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:24PM (#18242787)
Then go to Japan on your next trip, and you will realize that no, tips are not necessary at allow for excellent service. Not only that, but you will also realize that service in the United States is nothing to boast about.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by jaclaz on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:46PM (#18242306)
>After visiting Europe ...

All Europe was like this?

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by kentosi on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:57PM (#18242467)
Visit Australia. Tips are not expected and the service is excellent.
Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by dijit on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:11PM (#18241831)
That’s a very U.S. thing though.

In most of the EU you tip for good service. IE; only if your food came in a timely fashion, was not mis-prepared or incorrect and if the wait-staff are generally being polite, kind, courteous.

The idea is that you’re rewarding good service, not that your bound by social convention to give a percentage extra on top of what was agreed upon when you read the menu.

While we’re on the subject, the idea of excluding tax on good until you reach checkout is absolutely insane to me.

Re:You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquet... by newguynewguy on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:25PM (#18242795)
I'm a manager in a US restaurant. I've run the numbers and, given the maximum price increases our market could bear, the upper 3/4ths of our wait staff would make ~$1-2 less an hour than they do now.

I was also a waiter in the restaurant. I hated the stress, but could find no jobs with comparable schedule flexibility/required qualifications that paid as well.