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Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by beloch on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @07:59AM (#18238113)
How Canada interfaces with the rest of the world promises to be a bit screwy.

For just one example, consider airline staff. Some Canadian airlines have already banned employees from using pot. Obviously, the general public doesn't want to fly with pilots that are high in more than one way. These airlines also have to operate in countries, like the U.S., where their employees could be detained or expelled for even admitting to have used pot in the past. Being able to look foreign gatekeepers in the face and deny having ever used a product that's legal in your native country is now a necessary job requirement for some.

On the bright side, we could finally get some quality data on the health impacts of pot, now that trials and surveys can be done without potentially incriminating anyone. Like practically every other fun thing in existence it's probably very bad for you. We just don't know how... yet.

Canada taxes alcohol at a rate of over 50% in most provinces. The initial tax rates for pot will be much lower, but should increase steadily year-over-year. Alcohol taxes continue to rise every year. This is going to be a huge cash cow for the Canadian government, and I can't imagine other countries not wanting to get in on the action once they see how much Canada will be raking in.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by Symbiote on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:44AM (#18239560)
> Being able to look foreign gatekeepers in the face and deny having ever used a product that's legal in your native country is now a necessary job requirement for some.

This is not so different from being arrested for having drunk alcohol at the UAE border. (In this case, alcohol supplied by the Dubai airline.)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/11/woman-arrest...

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirate...

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by mediocrejoker on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @11:22AM (#18239947)
Except in this case the consumption could have happened years prior, as opposed to being actively intoxicated.

edit: not saying I agree with Dubai's policies.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by benbristow on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @05:12PM (#18243853)
From every headline there's a backstory.

I've been to Dubai Airport and had a pint. No problem. There's bars all over the place. Even an official Heineken bar.

Just don't act like an ass and you'll be fine.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by romwell on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @07:09PM (#18244606)
>From every headline there's a backstory.

The backstory being "Don't be a woman in UAE"?

>I've been to Dubai Airport and had a pint. No problem.

O, selective enforcement, the glorious ideal all other countries' legal systems should aspire to!

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by TomMarius on Thursday October 18, 2018 @07:10AM (#18247344)
It won't change overnight. Selective enforcement is one step towards freedom.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by verelo on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:07AM (#18238542)
How is the US travel situation with Canada any different to someone coming from say the Netherlands?

Regarding pilots, Transport Canada, the governing body over federal aviation regulations has explicitly come out and said use of Canabis is valid grounds for a revoked medical certificate, which is required for any pilot to fly. While the airline rules are one thing, this is a very serious implication for pilots.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by clomond on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:34AM (#18238753)
One major thing that comes to mind is that cannabis is still technically illegal in the Netherlands. Instead there is a distinction of "soft drugs" and "hard drugs" and authorities follow a policy of non-enforcement in many (but not all) cases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands...

In Canada cannabis has become legal in a manner similar to alcohol, making the difference.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by JPKab on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:55PM (#18240992)
Interestingly to me, it seems that the broader international audience on HN has absolutely no idea that individual states in the USA have fully legalized and regulated cannabis.

Colorado (where I live) has done so for 4 years, and California, Nevada, to name a few, have followed suit.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by softawre on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @01:22PM (#18241266)
We know, it's just that it is still illegal at the federal level. It's similar to the non-prosecution agreement mentioned in the Netherlands above.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by jerrysievert on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:14PM (#18241875)
> It's similar to the non-prosecution agreement mentioned in the Netherlands above

not necessarily. in Oregon, it is tracked, taxed, and regulated. one can still grow their own and remove themselves from the tracking, but this is for personal consumption not for sale.

there is still enforcement, and cooperation with the federal levels, specifically to help curb the black market and the problems that arise due to the black market.

one example of a difference would be the airport - you can fly in Oregon with cannabis, as long as you are under the legal limit to carry and are flying within the state (not crossing any borders). if the TSA (federal employees) are concerned about how much you are carrying or that you are not old enough, they will detain you long enough for local authorities to check, then release you and whatever legal amount you have with you to fly (if you are over the limit, you are asked to dispose of it, much like having too much liquid in your carry-on).

this differs quite a bit to pre-legalization, where non-prosecution was more likely if you were white and in a larger city such as Portland.

the limits are for federal property, which falls under federal law, crossing borders, which again falls under federal law, and black market activities, which are illegal under state laws, and likely include crossing of borders or federal land (quite a lot of forests in the United States are federally owned).

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by derefr on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:45PM (#18242303)
The major practical difference to the average American citizen, is that the FDA is a federal organization, and so must still follow the federal ruleset when licensing drugs, even for products that will only be sold within a given state.

If an Oregon pharmaceutical company wanted to try to put THC in a pill; do a study for its positive effects against, say, anxiety; and then get it bottled and sold at drug stores—they still wouldn't be able to, because, even if the government of Oregon would love for them to do so, the Oregon state legislature isn't responsible for allowing or disallowing that to happen.

Whereas, if a Canadian pharmaceutical company now wants to attempt to get a cannabis byproduct licensed for prescription or OTC usage in Canada, they now totally can.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by jerrysievert on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @04:07PM (#18243233)
> Whereas, if a Canadian pharmaceutical company now wants to attempt to get a cannabis byproduct licensed for prescription or OTC usage in Canada, they now totally can.

you are absolutely correct, but I was only addressing the note that state legalization is equivalent to looking the other way in the Netherlands, which was the opinion of OP.

I very much look forward to the research that Canadian companies are able to do, specifically with other cannabinoids other than thc.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by amscanne on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:13PM (#18241868)
Just to be pedantic, Washington was the first state to legalize for recreational use (by 4 days), so Colorado was also following suit ;)
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by giarc on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:43AM (#18238834)
Here are a few points by the CBC. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/cannabis-5...

Basically don't cross an international border with weed.

From the above article "This is the case even if you are travelling to places like The Netherlands or Uruguay that have decriminalized or legalized cannabis."

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by upofadown on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:43AM (#18239554)
It's a bit more passive than that for the aviation stuff. Transport Canada has decided not to change the current policy. That's a bit surprising. A cynical person might think that they were just too slow to come up with such a policy and that there might be one showing up later.

Cannabis is not explicitly mentioned in the regulations and is lumped in with any drug, legal or not, that can cause impairment.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by A2017U1 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:01AM (#18239058)
Pilots are in short supply worldwide, any country creating further restrictions is going to obviously face even more supply problems.

Get the feeling it will pass unnoticed, like many regulations that don't make sense it's far easier to let it slide rather than change the rules.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by todd3834 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:21AM (#18239307)
I’m surprised to hear that pilots are in short supply. I started learning to fly as a hobby and I saw many videos about how hard it is to get a job at a commercial airline. I got the impression that there is more supply than there is demand.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by mrguyorama on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @11:58AM (#18240303)
Pilots aren't in short supply. Pilots willing to accrue $40k in dept for the necessary education to then get paid $25k a year are very much in short supply. Many regional pilots are on food stamps. This is the reason I currently write software instead of flying commercial airplanes.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by mprev on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @03:03PM (#18242540)
The going rate for training to commercial level in the UK is £120k. I wonder what accounts for the difference. Pilot wages are higher than the $25k you mention. Are those regional airlines subsidising the training?
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by softawre on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @01:23PM (#18241273)
Shouldn't wages increase with demand? Why aren't they?
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by RugnirViking on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @01:37PM (#18241421)
If only the market was as simple as this. The reason as with many things lies with the fact that when an industry has a small number of large employers, they can conspire to cap wages fairly easily without ever actually speaking to each other, and indeed it probably happens without any illegal conspiracy, just them banking on each other to not undercut.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by HeyLaughingBoy on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @05:46PM (#18244115)
It's been years since I was a student pilot, but it doesn't look like things have changed much. Back then, there were many commercial pilots at the low end, making peanuts. Only at the middle & upper levels do you really start to make money

It's a similar situation to National Park Rangers: there are so many people willing to do the job that wages are very low.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by TimJYoung on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:04PM (#18240380)
Why the World is Running Out of Pilots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cognzTud3Wg

Edit: I'm not a pilot, just a kid that never grew up and likes airplane stuff...

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by borkt on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:49AM (#18239593)
Getting the necessary time in complex aircraft has gotten almost prohibitively expensive. I also believe the military is creating less pilots as a result of having fewer and fewer airframes. I wanted to be a pilot and pursued an Air National Guard C-17 squadron, but to get the hours they were looking for would have required me to be independently wealthy. And if you go the civilian route, you end up flying for a regional with hopes it doesn't get bought out before you get enough PIC time to be competitive for one of the majors. And that is while making 20k-30k anually for 5-10 years.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by verelo on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:36AM (#18239478)
Depends where you are. In Asia this is very true, in North America it's not true at all. Source: I'm a pilot.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by shittyadmin on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:28AM (#18238698)
> The initial tax rates for pot will be much lower, but should increase steadily year-over-year. Alcohol taxes continue to rise every year.

The problem is they've got to play this game very carefully right now as the black market is still well established and providing to many people.

They need to both drop prices (which should happen once more supply spins up) and start raiding illegal dispensaries and mail order shops if they want to convince people to stay in the legal system. From what I've seen on reddit - we need to see a significant price drop and potentially quality improvement before many existing regular users will be convinced to switch.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by wafflesraccoon on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:07AM (#18239126)
Personal anecdote, I was a heavy cannabis user in Colorado when it became legal. In the beginning most people still would purchase green from their dealer to avoid the the high tax. Over time, most people simply switched to using dispensaries for the convenience and selection. I no longer live in CO but of my cannabis friends there, almost everyone I know uses a dispensary now.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by pilom on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @01:17PM (#18241220)
Are you and your cannabis using friends white? Colorado actually tracks these numbers and has found for years since legalization that about 50% of "street" level sales are illegal and 50% go through dispensaries. Minorities are significantly more likely to purchase it illegally and whites are significantly more likely to purchase it legally.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by wafflesraccoon on Thursday October 18, 2018 @12:42PM (#18249838)
Yep. CO in general is a very white state so I wonder how relevant that is? It is interesting regardless.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by graybolt on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:05PM (#18240390)
Are there still people who buy/sell illegally? What's the price difference, if you have any idea?
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by wafflesraccoon on Thursday October 18, 2018 @12:42PM (#18249828)
I no longer live in CO, at this point I assume most people who buy off the black market just have a friend with a lot of plants who can grow it at a cheaper price.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by mactrey on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:26PM (#18240639)
From personal experience (as an Oregon resident, not a drug dealer), it will be incredibly difficult for black market sellers to compete with the technology and economies of scale that large companies will bring to bear on the cannabis market. Taxes would have to be much, much higher (200%?) to allow for significant black market competition. Of course there will always be some fraction who buy "under the table" just as there will always be some people who prefer to brew their own beer but overall their impact is negligible as a proportion of the whole.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by shittyadmin on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:01PM (#18245121)
I completely agree, however we just need to see that in effect - and it's not yet visible on the marketplace currently.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by mikestew on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:28AM (#18239391)
Meh, what people say on reddit and what they do are two different things. Folks might hold out for a bit, but I imagine most folks will pay the “convenience fee” and pop down to the shop on the way home from work. As a WA resident, at this point if I had to go tracking down a dealer, I’d go back to not smoking.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by shittyadmin on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @11:07AM (#18239775)
A lot of people currently use illicit mail order services, which puts it pretty much at the same level of convenience as government run online shops at the moment.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by mikestew on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @11:29AM (#18240012)
Fair enough, much different situation than the U. S., I guess. I'll admit to be being pretty surprised that the government's solution to not having brick-and-mortars up and running was, "well, would it be okay if we just mailed it to you?" Umm...hell, yeah?
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by winthrowe on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @01:50PM (#18241562)
It wasn't a surprise to me.

All medical cannabis in Canada has been shipped via Canada Post for almost two decades, and the same set of producers are handling recreational supplies. Extending this to recreational seems like a straightforward way to get things started.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by senorjazz on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:52AM (#18239633)
Can't all these (once?) illegal growers sellers just do so legally now?

Not talking about someone who buys an ounce and sells 3/4 so they get a 1/4 for free, but those doing it as a business, making good money.

About 15 years ago used to grow and sell in the UK, nothing too major, about 1 to 2kg a month would get cropped every month of the year. If the option presented itself to pay tax on the profit in order to remove the hassle and fear or banking the money I would have taken the hit of lost profit in a heart beat.

Is this not being offered to existing growers / suppliers / dealers? I can understand perhaps not as a long term solution, but as a transition period

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by daveFNbuck on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @11:24AM (#18239970)
They don't just tax the profit, do they? If they tax the sale price, it's pretty easy for the taxes to exceed your profit margin.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by shittyadmin on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @11:16AM (#18239886)
Nope, existing black market growers are shit out of luck, you need to have a license from Health Canada to grow commercially (over 4 plants personal), they're barely allowing movement of plant seeds from the black market into the legal system, but that's about it. If you're a black market grower you must still sell illegally.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by undersuit on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:02PM (#18241718)
Since cannabis is legal through out the country maybe the banking system will touch it. Illegal dispensaries wouldn't stand a chance compared to a legal one that could accept bank and credit cards.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by electricslpnsld on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:58PM (#18241016)
Will it be terribly different than how US states that have legalized marijuana interface with federal governmental entities? Plenty of folks in Colorado, Oregon, Washington, some of the New England States, and California work for the federal government and have to tell them that they do not use marijuana. Similar with airline pilots, etc based out of these States.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by number_six on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @04:03PM (#18243199)
It will be different because the US can bar Canadians for life from ever entering the country.

Whereas they can't bar a US Citizen from re-entering the country.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by acct1771 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @01:28PM (#18241329)
Ways it's bad:

1) Helps being okay with being bored 2) Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome, and, by my estimation, varying levels thereof 3) Cancer, and lung/heart disease, if you're dumb enough to light it on fire =] 4) Adrenal fatigue

Still an incredibly useful substance.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by derefr on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @02:51PM (#18242376)
And none of those happen if you have a chemical imbalance resulting in low endocannabinoid levels, because THC/CBD would just bring those levels back up to a baseline reference value, rather than pushing them into excess.

(I.e., the same reason that people who have ADHD don't become manic when taking stimulant-class ADHD meds; while people who don't have ADHD, do.)

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by acct1771 on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @04:13PM (#18243302)
You're right, except the cancer.

Don't light shit on fire, kids. Vaporize or eat!

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by TomMarius on Thursday October 18, 2018 @07:16AM (#18247364)
I'm struggling to find a good vaporizer.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by tokyodude on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:18AM (#18238627)
> On the bright side, we could finally get some quality data on the health impacts of pot

Doesn't this already exist from other countries where it's been legal for decades?

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by dagw on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:29AM (#18238709)
Doesn't this already exist from other countries where it's been legal for decades?

As far as I know Canada is only the second country in the world (after Uruguay) to actually fully legalize recreational cannabis.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by romwell on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @07:13PM (#18244634)
FWIW, the population of California (where recreational cannabis has been legal since winter) is larger than the entire population of Canada.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by chimeracoder on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:58PM (#18241026)
> Doesn't this already exist from other countries where it's been legal for decades?

There is no other country in the world where marijuana has been legal for decades.

However, that doesn't mean that research into the effects of marijuana doesn't happen, including in the U.S. Marijuana is actually one of the most well-studied drugs in existence - we have a much clearer understanding of the short- and long-term effects of marijuana than we do of almost every commercially-produced pharmaceutical on the market.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by Sharlin on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:31AM (#18238727)
I don't think there are any. Not in the West, anyway. Even in the Netherlands it's only "tolerated", not legalized or even decriminalized.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by vvillena on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @11:53AM (#18240250)
Portugal decriminalized all drugs a few years ago, with tremendous success from a health and crime perspective. Decriminalization and state-sponsored addiction programs were key in controlling a drug epidemic there.

It would be a solution for the current American opioid crisis, but implementing such measures there would be political suicide.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by Sharlin on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:03PM (#18240363)
Yes, true. I didn't mention Portugal because it didn't pass the "decades of experience" condition.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by StavrosK on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @09:27AM (#18238694)
Where has it been legal for decades? I'm not aware of any.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by lostgame on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @08:44AM (#18238391)
‘Obviously, the general public doesn't want to fly with pilots that are high in more than one way.’

I laughed way too hard at this for some reason.

Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by tyfon on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:02AM (#18239070)
I'd much rather have a high pilot than a hung-over/drunk pilot though which seems to be quite common.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by SeanBoocock on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:48AM (#18239587)
Pilots being drunk in the cockpit is not “quite common” at least among major carriers. Pilots are randomly tested throughout the year against a stricter standard than what’s used for driving under the influence in the US. A positive test can be career ending.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by tk75x on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @10:39AM (#18239510)
And then there's the stereotype that they're on stimulants a la Denzel Washington in "Flight"
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by knightofmars on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @08:53AM (#18238447)
Not to derail the conversation. I agree, the delivery within the OP was spot on.
Re:Cannabis is legal in Canada: What you need to know by eqdw on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @12:10PM (#18240465)
> Obviously, the general public doesn't want to fly with pilots that are high in more than one way.

To hear my uncle tell it, I've got some _really_ bad news for Canadians about the prevalence of alcoholism amongst pilots.

According to him, something like 1/8th of them are some level of drunk while flying.