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Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by thatoneyouthrow on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:56PM (#18231545)
Throwaway on this one for obvious reasons.

Everyone makes mistakes and it is clearly a mistake to take money from repressive regimes. The #metoo movement should take a look at some of these companies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by enraged_camel on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @01:59PM (#18231567)
How easy or even feasible is it to track where the money is coming from? Let's say you're a startup and a VC wants to invest in you. Can you ask for that information?
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by ISL on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:01PM (#18231586)
If a question is important, it can always be asked.

One must be prepared, of course, for the ramifications of asking a question and getting an unpleasant answer.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by supercanuck on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:08PM (#18231660)
Or they could go public and avoid the problem entirely. Let's not pretend there aren't other alternatives.

Public, Open markets are there for a reason.

They cost more, but are more ethical.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by vkou on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:30PM (#18231903)
> They cost more, but are more ethical.

They aren't.

If you go public, you have zero control of who owns your company. It's not more ethical - it just launders your ethical responsibility.

There are plenty of people or organizations - who also happen to have a horrific ethical record - who can buy shares in a private company. And there's nothing you can do to stop that.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by tartoran on Thursday October 18, 2018 @09:49AM (#18248259)
I'd argue in this case with Saudi money that zero control is better than blood money
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by qaq on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:03PM (#18231600)
Given the fact that SoftBank dwarfs all other funds (even combined) is it a realistic scenario?
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by gcb0 on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:16PM (#18231736)
who are softbanks stakeholders?
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by thatoneyouthrow on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:27PM (#18231874)
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by gcb0 on Thursday October 18, 2018 @04:54PM (#18252023)
that's the CEO... not the stakeholder.
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by dejv on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:27PM (#18231872)
Saudi prince invested huge amounts, not sure if personal or state money.
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by vkou on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:14PM (#18231721)
> Everyone makes mistakes and it is clearly a mistake to take money from repressive regimes.

Is it clearly a mistake to take money from the CIA? The DoD?

A couple of current Silicon Valley giants have been seeded by that money.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by supercanuck on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:17PM (#18231746)
You are comparing the CIA/DOD with the Saudi Kingdom?

Really? One still answers to a democratically, elected president and Congress. One does not.

This isn't comparable.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by vkou on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:20PM (#18231789)
I don't care who they answer to, I care about what they do. The CIA has a history of torture and terrorism. The DOD has most recently, caused the deaths of a couple hundred thousand people in the Middle East.

Just because you live in a democracy doesn't mean you can wash your hands of it. The British empire was a parliamentary democracy, and it has done a lot of truly abhorrent stuff over the 18th and 19th centures.

I mean, I would prefer ethical sources of funding, but drawing the line at "Sadui bad, China bad, Russia bad, American agencies/companies/individuals good" is tribalism.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by forapurpose on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:35PM (#18231938)
> The British empire was a parliamentary democracy, and it has done a lot of truly abhorrent stuff over the 18th and 19th centures.

A detail: They had a monarch with real power in the 18th and 19th centuries, as well as a parliament.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by vkou on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:35PM (#18233512)
The question of "Who has power in the British Empire" was settled pretty definitively back in 1649, when Charles I lost his head.

If you want to split hairs, we can say that it was settled more definitively in 1661, when Cromwell's head was put on a spike outside Westminster hall.

The empire was governed by Parliament.

The queen/king had some power, sure. Today, Larry Page has some power. Rupert Murdoch has power. The Koch brothers have power. Aristocrats, throughout history have had power, even if they have no formal posts in government. Just because a few well-connected individuals have power in a country, doesn't mean that it isn't a democracy.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by dragonwriter on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:51PM (#18233610)
> The question of "Who has power in the British Empire" was settled pretty definitively back in 1649, when Charles I lost his head.

> If you want to split hairs, we can say that it was settled more definitively in 1661, when Cromwell's head was put on a spike outside Westminster hall.

Those are both wrong. It was settled in 1911 when George V made clear he would intervene by appointing new life peers if necessary to assure passage of reforms which would strip the House of Lords of its power to reject legislation, which finally settled that the Commons would henceforth be effectively the sole decisive ruling body of the Empire.

Prior to that, the Commons (democratic, approximately) and Lords (decidedly not) had an ebb and flow of power, with the Lord's sometimes being more powerful and the Commons sometimes being more powerful (including, for a period, the Commons abolishing the Lords with Cromwell's support, but that, like Cromwell, didn't last.)

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by forapurpose on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:45PM (#18233575)
It wasn't a binary change, from absolute power to none. Those events represented shifts in degree from the crown to Parliament. AFAIK, King George III still had significant power, for example, during the American Revolution.

Also, I've never heard the UK of that era referred to as a democracy. Here it says that under Queen Victoria (1837-1901), the role of the monarch transformed from one that exercised real power to one that was purely ceremonial:

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Victoria-queen-of-Unite...

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by dragonwriter on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:43PM (#18233561)
> The British empire was a parliamentary democracy

Not particularly; I mean, the Commons was democratic and Parliament largely governed the Empire, but the Commons wasn't really the sole meaningful house of Parliament during most ifthe period of the Empire.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by etrautmann on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:18PM (#18231762)
That involves a completely different set of moral questions and decision making.
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by matrixmultiply on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @02:56PM (#18232129)
#metoo is focused on witch hunting.
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by xemoka on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @03:00PM (#18232158)
This is ridiculous. The #metoo movement is not focused on "witch hunting", there are many different people associated with this "movement" and there is no real guiding person or organization that is focused on it. Individuals may be trying to take advantage of it, but don't throw everything out because of a couple rotten actors (that you perceive).
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by legostormtroopr on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @04:36PM (#18233007)
Except the figure head of #metoo was found to be as guilty as the rest of them [1]. Every actor or celebrity screaming #metoo is a hypocrite who was happy for the status quo to be a culture of assault and degradation, until it became convenient for them to say otherwise.

Then they passed it on the culture-at-large saying everyone has this problem, when it is vastly concentrated in Hollywood, which has lead to social breakdown [2].

[1] https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/celebrity/asia-argento-...

[2] http://fortune.com/2018/02/06/lean-in-sheryl-sandberg/

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by xemoka on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:23PM (#18233402)
There is no doubt that humans are shitty. Was that ever in question? The #metoo movement has brought forward, and into public discourse, a problem. Had this not been brought forward even Argento's indiscretions wouldn't be known. The things highlighted by the #metoo movement are impactful and important to the advancement of our society and civilization. These actions should not be considered "OKAY" and most people who say the #metoo movement is filled with witch hunting and should be stopped are effectively discounting any of its gains. Nothing is perfect, but we can all strive to be better—and maybe with #metoo visible in the world we can avoid the problems of the past in our future.
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by pdimitar on Wednesday October 17, 2018 @01:03PM (#18241069)
I believe the other two persons arguing with you here are simply saying that #metoo has a noble agenda but was quickly hijacked to push other people's agendas. Which is sadly a pretty classic scenario IMO.
Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by matrixmultiply on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @04:11PM (#18232824)
> Individuals may be trying to take advantage of it, but don't throw everything out because of a couple rotten actors (that you perceive).

Most are against due process, so it is difficult for me to take the movement seriously.

Re:Saudi Backlash Threatens U.S. Startups by xemoka on Tuesday October 16, 2018 @05:25PM (#18233422)
Most are against due process? As in most supporters of #metoo or as in the most visible and loudest supporters that you have focused on? Do you have any kind of real statistics about the supporters of #metoo or are you making an inference from what makes the headlines from your chosen media?