I'm born in Brazil and lived in both Toronto and SF. Honestly, the weather in Toronto is really not that bad. My wife calls it "having proper seasons". SF weather is somewhat cool all year round and you always need a sweater at dusk/dawn, whereas Toronto summer is actually hot. Also, going to the beach in Toronto is surprisingly nice - lake water is always calm (great for kids), no freezing wind and no fog.

If the problem is only winter, Vancouver's winter can hardly be called extreme, since it rarely dips below freezing point in the city.

The elephant in the room when it comes to salaries in the US-vs-Canada discussion that young people seem to not realize is that, in Canada, it's fairly trivial for a spouse to get a work visa and get a decent income even outside of the tech sector, whereas you're more or less forced to be a stay-at-home-mom family if you're planning to build a life in the US.

Hmm yeah hard winters or having your spouse deported. Hard choice.

I feel like the number of tech people who legitimately worry about their spouse being deported is extremely small. And it's only two years until the next election anyways.

It will be really interesting to see how the community reacts when they revoke H4-EADs. It is one thing that you did not had ability to work for years and then you did and suddenly you don't.

> worry about their spouse being deported

And then there are others who are hoping for it...

For high skilled people it can be I know a CTO who moved back to the uk from the valley mainly because his wife could not work - she was a senior nurse I recall.

I think that gives little reassurance.

Well your initial point was that people will put up with Canada's cold winters to avoid having their spouse deported. I don't think that is a realistic scenario (and if your spouse is an illegal immigrant, I seriously doubt Canada would let the immigrate).

It is sad that many people who are sympathizing with this legal immigration issue, fail to realize that it was not all hunky dory for high skilled legal immigrants (HSLI) before Trump started.

FWIW, HSLIs especially from India are suffering because of policies by Clinton/Bush/Obama administrations.

Trump administration just ensured that every rule is followed to the T.

This may sound sadistic, but I'm glad Trump administration is doing this, because immigrants and employers will start feeling the heat of these insane rules, and finally it may lead to a sensible legal immigration reform. Had it not been for Trump, you'd have more than 95% of those HSLI waiting for Green Cards not utter a thing against the rules from the previous administrations.

Getting deported is not the issue. Problem is that every single day you wake up to this uncertainty that you may get deported, but you are not sure. And being a legal immigrant who broke no rules, adds to that frustration, of being treated like an unwanted immigrant in a country that most people are blissfully unaware of.

> And it's only two years until the next election anyways.

At this point with 50% approval rating, I doubt you'll see an incumbent lose 2020

Not sure you are looking at the right source but have not seen an approval rating that high on any polls.

Yes it is a huge socio-economic issue but I was referring only to economic part of it. No one would ever want to be separated from their family.

Vancouver is like Seattle, only a bit more rain than SF. Less fog.

OTOH it might be a deal breaker for others that there is no local skiing in the bay area, no legal mountain biking, etc.

Therefore I would consider weather and environment also a bit of a personal preference thing.

  no legal mountain biking

This is ridiculously false.

Toronto is a few hours north of NYC and Vancouver a few hours north of Seattle, both don't differ in weather from their counterparts too much.

The issue here is people are forced to leave Bay Area or felt they are unable or not welcome to stay. So there is no free choice between the two.