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Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sonnyblarney on Monday October 08, 2018 @03:50AM (#18165085)
In North America I would vote Montreal. It's 1/2 price of most American cities and 2x funner and cooler than almost any of them. LA and NYC have tons of cool, but they are expensive and doing fun stuff is generally expensive. Not so Montreal. Mtl has way more going on than even SF ever had back in the day, and it's much bigger than Austin, Boulder/Colorado Springs etc. etc.. During the summer, Montreal has an unbelievable amount of stuff to do. Carnivals, festivals, just jammed back to back, overlapping one another all summer.

More students per capita than anywhere (depending on how you define 'city' because of course Boston is a big one, but Mtl has 5 Unis right down town within a few Km of each other).

And 1/2 of the city is French, and it's like being in another country.

It has an intellectual/creative tradition from French culture, also, it's actually a global leader in AI, and not just one of those cities making pompous statements: UMtl has the largest AI research facility in North America, and $100M in spending announced, and ElementAI has raised hundreds of millions so this is no joke.

But the winters are very cold. And salaries lag. And taxes are high. Healthcare is universal and you will get service ... but it's not as good as in the US when you are covered.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by HelgeSeetzen on Monday October 08, 2018 @08:04AM (#18166639)
Montreal is a great choice indeed. I am originally from Europe (Germany, short time in Holland) and have built tech companies on the West Coast (Vancouver, SF). After a decade on the West Coast, I moved to Montreal in 2010. Really enjoyable city with a great mix of high quality of life, culture and massive diversity (which in my opinion - even more so that universities - is the cause of the "intellectual" environment that you seek).

My outfit, TandemLaunch, has built 20+ deep tech companies in Montreal with people from all over the globe (some 40+ countries of origin). Depending on your background, there might be opportunities for you in one of those. Our companies range from early stage to those with 100+ employees so there are opportunities along the entire risk/reward spectrum (see here http://www.tandemlaunch.com/#portfolio). Obviously there are plenty of other great companies in Montreal as well.

Happy to help with any local insights if you are considering this beautiful city (including with immigration since we have literally done this 100+ times).

cheers Helge

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by randomsearch on Monday October 08, 2018 @08:10AM (#18166672)
What's "deep tech"?
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by HelgeSeetzen on Monday October 08, 2018 @08:35AM (#18166837)
As the previous reply kindly indicates, I am talking about more fundamental technology development. Basically the R of R&D and not just development. For example, our portfolio includes companies like Stratuscent which is using tech from NASA to develop an "electronic nose" using machine learning, Aerial which extracts people's position/activities by analysing wifi signals, Airy3D which is developing a novel image sensor that can capture 2D/3D/lightfield all in one package, etc..

We work with 50+ universities across the globe on the fundamental research and then incorporate the results in new tech companies like those above. Great fun :)

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by milaresearcher on Monday October 08, 2018 @08:19AM (#18166733)
By deep tech he means tech companies backed by patents or defensible intellectual property. Technology businesses enabled by research or new ideas, not another chat app.

He was a research physicist that worked on developing High-Dynamic Range screens, so he's interested in businesses kinda like that.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by enjoyitasus on Monday October 08, 2018 @04:58AM (#18165539)
I would agree. Montreal has relatively good infrastructure and also good housing options for families and singles alike. It’s small compared to these tier 1 cities in Western Europe but it’s great, people are nice and are bilingual.

The winters are extremely cold but if you don’t mind that it’s fine. Not sure about the salaries but I hear they are lower but so is the cost of living.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sonnyblarney on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:11AM (#18165624)
"It’s small compared to these tier 1 cities in Western Europe"

Only London and Paris are much bigger.

Mtl is about 4 million people, it's almost the same size as Madrid or Berlin or Barca. A little smaller than Amsterdam but really bigger than most else.

But it's tier 2 size in North America, but a strong tier 2.

It's really weird how people in NA don't know about Montreal. It kills most places for culture.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by raverbashing on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:31AM (#18165750)
I agree with GP's assessment of Mtl, just wanting to make a point on the size.

Montreal metro is 4 million. But Montreal has a special dynamic, by fact of being an island. It's not as well connected as Manhattam.

So there are two "bumps", one north and one south (Montreal has its own definition of North/South, btw)

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sonnyblarney on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:59PM (#18171694)
It's as well connected.

Also, the 'division' is not geographic, it's cultural. East Montreal is French, West is English and it's bizarre how little social crossing there is. I live among the French and they don't even know about major things happening in the West Side.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by raverbashing on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @08:24AM (#18175299)
I'm saying the island is not well connected with the South/North side

It will get better when they build the new bridge though

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by baby on Monday October 08, 2018 @09:16AM (#18167086)
I think I would agree, Montreal is the nicest city I've been in north america (perhaps with Ottawa) but the cold is definitely a deal breaker for me.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by blocked_again on Monday October 08, 2018 @04:53AM (#18165499)
How easy is to get a job in Montreal if I am not from North America and don't have a Visa or PR?
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sonnyblarney on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:07AM (#18165586)
If you are an American it's trivial if you have a technical degree. You get a TN visa at the border and can renew for up to 6 years.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by barrow-rider on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @10:13AM (#18176121)
The TN visa is good for 3 years at a time and can be renewed an unlimited number of times. It is NOT a path to Permanent Resident or Citizenship, however; you will have to get on a different visa for that (e.g. marry a local, get sponsored via non-TN work permit, etc).

Also, definitely not trivial, even as an American with a technical degree. The paperwork & process isn't hard but getting a TN sponsor is non-trivial.

Quebec also has their own immigration rules and you have to apply with them as well as with the Federal government. Not sure how TN's work in QC, but I know only Canadian PRs and Citizens can move there; if you're a temporary resident from outside of the province you need to talk to QC Immigration.

Caveat: this is based on old NAFTA rules, not sure how they work or if there are changes under the recently-signed "NAFTA 2.0."

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by blocked_again on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:09AM (#18165602)
I am not an American.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by sonnyblarney on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:12AM (#18165631)
It's probably easier than moving to the US, it's a points system, much easier if you have a job and a technical degree, but not trivial either. We have quite a lot of immigration.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by chrisper on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:51AM (#18165902)
I heard that the taxes are quite high in Canada and so is the cost of living.

Can you shed some light on this?

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by otalp on Monday October 08, 2018 @06:46AM (#18166189)
I did the math for Toronto(which is more expensive than Montreal).

For a typical software engineer, taxes take away 25% of gross pay in Ontario while it's over 30% in California and New York. Cost of living is much less(by 30-40% if you rent) in Toronto compared to Cali/New York. Of course, you will also earn 40% less in USD. So it about evens out

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by localtalent on Monday October 08, 2018 @12:39PM (#18168932)
From what I've experienced, this is rapidly becoming untrue - CoL in Toronto has become very high, friends are paying comparable to what I paid in NYC but salaries are definitely lower. They're paying in CAD what I paid in USD, but are earning 20-30% less. Food is also more expensive (particularly eating out), on the whole, than NYC.

Most new construction apartments are quite small, and the older, larger ones command a significant premium. You can move out of the downtown core (to North York, Scarborough, etc) but then you're committed to a long commute on the slow TTC or sitting in traffic on the 401.

MTL is much cheaper, but salaries also lag even further.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by otalp on Monday October 08, 2018 @02:24PM (#18169944)
According to numbeo[1] which crowdsources data, groceries and restaurants are 20% cheaper(adjusted for currency) in Toronto, but of course the salary is more than 20% lower, which might explain your experience. The real kicker is the rent, while Toronto rent is definitely increasing, it is nowhere close to New York City levels, and most sources do say you have to pay 50% more for an equivalent apartment in NYC.

Also according to my calculations from the data on numbeo, the equivalent of (pre-tax) $135,000 USD in NYC is $110,000 CAD in Toronto. It is of course easier to get 135k in NYC than 110k in Toronto, but the difference isn't nearly as big as the CAD/USD differences and wage gap makes it seem. And if you can get a job in the Waterloo-Kitchenner area, CoL of course plummets. Freelancing for clients in the US or working remotely also has great advantages.

[1]https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by itwy on Monday October 08, 2018 @12:53PM (#18169049)
How did you come up with 25%? My taxes are almost exactly 40%.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by otalp on Monday October 08, 2018 @02:06PM (#18169774)
90-100k CAD comes to 27% here for Ontario: https://simpletax.ca/calculator

I'm talking about the average for the whole salary, not the marginal rate for the highest bracket. It looks like you have to earn $250,000 CAD to get a 40% average, but that's a very high salary by Canadian standards.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by barrow-rider on Tuesday October 09, 2018 @10:02AM (#18176033)
COL is higher than the US across the board, but coming from a big East-Coast US city the costs aren't crazy to me. That said I saw an article about how Vancouver is now the most affordable city in North America, so maybe my perception was skewed by NYC-DC prices. Taxes are a bit higher but nothing insane; I feel the pinch more at the grocery store buying produce.

The salaries in Canada, however, are just not up to par with the US. The CAD to USD currency rate is also not amazing (0.77 CAD to 1 USD last I looked).

I work remotely for an American company, but if I didn't it would be a huge pay cut for me.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by philprx on Monday October 08, 2018 @06:07AM (#18165993)
Canada has an age pyramid problem: that means that young skilled people have an excellent chance of being selected for immigration.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by m_t on Monday October 08, 2018 @10:28AM (#18167729)
You need a visa.

Either a Travel+Toursim visa (depending if you're nationality of origin is eligible) or a Visa sponsored by an employer.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by zaptheimpaler on Monday October 08, 2018 @06:53AM (#18166225)
Any recommendations on companies that do exciting things and treat people well in Montreal?
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by aiouy on Monday October 08, 2018 @09:54AM (#18167438)
Shakepay is hiring a full stack dev in Montreal: https://medium.com/shakepay/shakepay-is-hiring-a-3rd-full-st...

Happy to chat about what it's like to live in Montreal if anyone's curious.

Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by nyxtom on Monday October 08, 2018 @02:23PM (#18169929)
I've been curious about Montreal for some time now. Though given that we have a small toddler (age 3) moving is a lot more involved and more thoroughly planned out. I explored Montreal through Google Maps quite extensively, marking all the coffee shops/chocolate shops/restaurants/and parks that we might visit. I am curious about living there quite a lot and wonder if any other family has moved there in the tech field.
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by lecha on Monday October 08, 2018 @10:53AM (#18167999)
Dialogue is hiring (dialogue.co)
Re:Ask HN: Cheap places to live with a good intellectual atm... by Serow225 on Monday October 08, 2018 @05:14AM (#18165648)
I <3 Montreal :)