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Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by kevin_b_er on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:10PM (#18131690)
Wi-Fi Alliance is naming the not-yet-complete IEEE 802.11ax standard as Wi-Fi 6, with ac being 5, and n being 4. One can guess then a is supposed to 1, b as 2, and g as 3, but this isn't mentioned anywhere I can see.

As far as I can tell, all of these numbers are new. At least this naming is a good deal clearer than HDMI's confusing version and feature mix or USB's Speed names.

What isn't clear is how much control the Wi-Fi Alliance has over the tech industry and how their branding is used, but it looks like they might be able to compel a lot of companies to adopt this new naming. They've got standards for logos on things like your computer or phone, so we'll see if these start getting adopted by major manufacturers.

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by kbenson on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:37PM (#18131980)
> Wi-Fi Alliance is naming the not-yet-complete IEEE 802.11ax standard as Wi-Fi 6, with ac being 5, and n being 4. One can guess then a is supposed to 1, b as 2, and g as 3, but this isn't mentioned anywhere I can see.

Oh, I'm so happy it's a number that seems to correspond to something (as long as the next one is 7 or 8 or some integer slightly larger than 6).

I look at wifi tech so rarely that I've mostly skipped a standard once or twice, but that just means I'm confused when I look at what's being offered. 802.11n? 802.11ac? What's better? If it's not as clear cut, which one came out later and is likely to be backwards compatible with the prior one?

If it was single letter increasing without large gaps, that might have been easier, but from what I remember, b wasn't strictly better than a when they were both first out (from looking at the info now, a has a higher rate, but suffers from obstructions and other interference more).

> At least this naming is a good deal clearer than HDMI's confusing version and feature mix or USB's Speed names.

Yes. As I understand it, USB is particularly bad where there's often confusion over the connectors, cable, and protocol, especially at the USB-c level.

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by Gaelan on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:58PM (#18132261)
ac is later and presumably better. No idea if there are any trade offs
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by chipperyman573 on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:30PM (#18133243)
AC only supports 5gz, which has significantly worse range and is impacted much more by walls or other solid objects. But if there aren't a problem it's generally better
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by mrb on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:40PM (#18133375)
"AC only supports 5gz."

That's not an accurate statement. "802.11ac" denotes a set of features, and many of them apply to and benefit the 2.4 GHz band. For example 256QAM encoding boosts the max data rate by 20 or 33% on this band for, respectively, 20 and 40 MHz channels.

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by oasisbob on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @06:57PM (#18135496)
Isn't 256QAM on 2.4GHz a proprietary feature?

https://www.cwnp.com/forums/posts?postNum=307358

I always heard that 802.11ac was 5GHz only, and that on dual-band, stations would stick with 802.11n for 2.4GHz

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by DesertBattery on Friday October 05, 2018 @04:30AM (#18146606)
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by chipperyman573 on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @03:47PM (#18134109)
Interesting. How come all the consumer routers I've used have always required 5ghz to use AC capabilities? Are the rest of the ac features enterprisey? Or have I just not interacted with enough routers to see these?
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by derefr on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @03:40PM (#18134045)
Those limitations are a good thing: they reduce interference from neighbouring apartments/offices, and even interference between overlapping cells of a mesh network or a base station and its extenders. In practice, this means that the extenders can extend longer, so something like a convention center or work-sharing space can use approximately the same number of base stations it did before.

The only problem is that your phone might not be able to talk to your router through your bathroom wall any more. But that capability was always a sign of wi-fi being too noisy—imagine a light that can manage to penetrate a bathroom wall, and tell me you don’t think it’s maybe a bit too powerful for consumer use ;)

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by Nullabillity on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @04:24PM (#18134497)
> Those limitations are a good thing: they reduce interference from neighbouring apartments/offices

Sometimes. 5GHz is great for apartments (where you have lots of noise and a tiny area) and offices (where you have lots of noise and a large budget), but for a villa 2.4GHz usually hits the sweet spot between noise and coverage.

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by SEMW on Thursday October 04, 2018 @07:55AM (#18139037)
> imagine a light that can manage to penetrate a bathroom wall, and tell me you don’t think it’s maybe a bit too powerful for consumer use ;)

Visible light has a wavelength of a few hundred nanometers; wifi is around 10 centimeters. Material penetrability varies enormously between different wavelengths (and between materials). Harm to humans also various enormously, and in a way very different from penetrability (for example, some wavelengths of UVC are very harmful to human skin but can be almost completely blocked by a thin sheet of clear glass). Equating penetrability with either 'power' or harmfulness is not a useful intuition.

(incidentally, an incandescent light bulb emits on a blackbody spectrum, so some very small proportion of the energy it uses will be emitted at e.g. radio wave frequencies, which will certainly penetrate the bathroom wall)

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by lostlogin on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @01:06PM (#18132337)
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Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by cstrahan on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @01:11PM (#18132384)
What's the "oops" about?
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by rythie on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:48PM (#18132132)
> Wi-Fi Alliance is naming the not-yet-complete IEEE 802.11ax standard as Wi-Fi 6, with ac being 5, and n being 4. One can guess then a is supposed to 1, b as 2, and g as 3, but this isn't mentioned anywhere I can see.

Most 802.11b and 802.11g devices didn't support 802.11a (due to it requiring 5Ghz), so I'm guessing version 1 is 802.11 and 802.11a isn't part of the version numbers.

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by cesarb on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @01:00PM (#18132282)
I would put 802.11a as 3 together with 802.11g, since they have the same rates (and are basically the same tech in a different band, 802.11g feels like 802.11a ported to 2.4GHz plus some extra compatibility stuff).
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by WorldMaker on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:33PM (#18133280)
It sounds like the Wi-Fi Alliance doesn't particularly care which one is 1, 2, and 3. They've only strongly defined 4 (n), 5 (ac), and 6 (ax). [1] It also sounds like they don't think enough devices are left in the wild of a, b, g, to worry about branding them.

The best description I've heard for 1-3 was to use roughly the consumer hardware adoption curve which was 1 (b), [briefly] 2 (a), 3 (g).

[1] https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by colanderman on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:45PM (#18132092)
Hm, I would expect 802.11-1997 to be 1. Is that 0? Or does it share a number with b, because they're the same technology? Or is it 1, and a and g share a number because they're the same technology? Or do a and b share a number because they were released simultaneously?

(This is, of course, a Very Important Question.)

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by WorldMaker on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @02:37PM (#18133337)
I think 802.11-1997 works as 0 in this case. The implication from the Wi-Fi Alliance seems to be they are counting consumer hardware generations, and there doesn't seem to have been much consumer hardware that was directly 802.11-1997 (it took b to get consumer adoption). Which is why the order I've heard that makes the most sense is 1 (b), 2 (a), 3 (g), because that was roughly the consumer hardwave waves, with the brief (a) hardware wave the fun out-of-order one.
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by Dylan16807 on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @11:37PM (#18136969)
a and b were specced at the same time though, so it's really weird to look at a+b+g as anything other than two generations.
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by WorldMaker on Thursday October 04, 2018 @12:30PM (#18141360)
That's certainly a fair viewpoint (and reflected together in the spec version 802.11-1999), but the interesting thing about this rebrand is the Wi-Fi Alliance taking a step back, realizing that the individual specs don't matter to consumers and as a consumer brand trying to break away from just using the spec names/versions.

From that perspective A, B, and G were all sold as three separate things to consumers, so it makes sense to count all three.

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by kingbirdy on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @01:24PM (#18132508)
I think this is why they didn't give the numbers for the early versions
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by gonzo on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @01:03PM (#18132320)
> Or does it share a number with b, because they're the same technology?

802.11b is part of 802.11-1999. 802.11-1997 describes the older Direct Spread (DS) and Frequency-Hopping (FS) standards in 2.4GHz.

802.11a and 802.11b were both ratified on 16 September 1999. 802.11g wasn't ratified until 12 June 2003.

http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/11/Reports/802.11_Timelin...

Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by colanderman on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @01:38PM (#18132646)
Right, 802.11b extended DSSS used by 802.11-1997 for 1 and 2 Mbps through 5.5 and 11 Mbps rates. No other Wi-Fi standards used DSSS.
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by Nullabillity on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:36PM (#18131976)
When was the last time you saw a WiFi logo? The only time I can remember was as one of those stickers on a HP laptop in 2005.
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by saagarjha on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @12:55PM (#18132229)
Not a logo, but lots of cell phone manufacturers like to list which Wi-Fi standard they support because they can then advertise “gigabit” downloads and the like.
Re:Wi-Fi Alliance introduces Wi-Fi 6 by all_blue_chucks on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @03:46PM (#18134096)
Does that make the original 802.11 "Wi-Fi 0"?