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Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by toomuchtodo on Monday October 01, 2018 @09:06PM (#18118064)
> spot an extreme growth opportunity, bet everything on it, and be correct.

Or be born into money. No amount of self-help is going to tilt the scale towards that.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by apatters on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @12:19AM (#18118761)
> spot an extreme growth opportunity, bet everything on it, and be correct.

> Or be born into money. No amount of self-help is going to tilt the scale towards that.

While there are undoubtedly success stories which resemble both of these caricatures, I think they're in the minority. I can't say I'm hobnobbing with the Forbes billionaires list but I have personal relationships with many people who built successful businesses. Betting on a unique opportunity is often an amplifier, so is starting in a good place in terms of money/family. But what they all have in common is they focused religiously on the top line, they didn't fuck up the bottom line, and they worked very hard.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by bicubic on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @02:36AM (#18119272)
You can't bet on an opportunity if you don't have any money to bet. I've lost count of how many ambitious and talented people I know who had ideas they wanted to bet on, but couldn't because of lack of disposable funds.

Having the resources to take risks is the number one factor to succeeding, I think. Being able to identify good opportunities comes after that.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by ryandrake on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @03:16AM (#18119421)
And a lot of these people have the resources to keep betting after they fail. I recall someone I know who failed 4 businesses, falling back to his rich family after each try while he cooked up the next one. Eventually hit the jackpot on the fifth one and acted as though he was a self-made genius.

Baseball is easy when you have unlimited at-bats.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by stephengillie on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @03:30AM (#18119462)
...born on 3rd base, having grown up thinking she had hit a triple... - various, 2013
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by apatters on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:05AM (#18119901)
Even if you have no money you can bet your personal time and effort.

I agree that having financial resources is a huge leg up, but I don't believe it's mandatory. My beliefs are formed from personal experience. I came from a working class family that lived below the poverty line. My parents kicked me out at 18 with a warning that if I ever wanted to come back I'd better be ready to pay them rent. (Resolved that I would never take them up on that offer, never did.) When I started my business I had $250 in the bank and no idea how I was going to pay the next month's rent.

For years I failed and I sacrificed where I had to. I worked long hours at terrible rates, I didn't spend a dollar more than necessary to survive, I gave up on my hope of saving and buying property, I neglected my health, I gave up on my hope of finding a partner and starting a family because women aren't interested in a nerd who has nothing to his name except dreams.

These are the sacrifices you can make if you aren't born into wealth but you want to achieve it. Some people absolutely have success handed to them. They have a safety net which allows them to fail until they succeed. For the rest of us, you sacrifice time, energy, opportunity, and health.

It took years but it worked, one day I hit on a great business and it all turned around.

Being broke certainly limits the type of opportunity you can invest in, but there's always something.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by alexgmcm on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @06:55AM (#18120387)
> Being broke certainly limits the type of opportunity you can invest in, but there's always something.

Always? It's not a law of physics...

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by taurath on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @01:03AM (#18118938)
I’ll add - “they had the privilege of being able to focus their attention and not be harmed for it”.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by white-flame on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @02:33AM (#18119266)
In betting on opportunity, often times they have everything riding on it.

Where does the "harm" you talk about come from? Usually it's because there are other responsibilities you're engaged with. If you literally give everything else up to focus on one thing, these barbs aren't in your life. I'm talking forgoing rent to crash with family/friends, eating ramen, selling/getting rid of your things, live on credit cards, etc, and have a 24/7 focus that keeps you going.

You'd be surprised how much that frees you from the immediate "harm" you describe, but you also have nothing to fall back on, because you pretty much have nothing else anymore than your pursuit, and can be amassing enormous debt (financial and otherwise). It's a huge amortized, pushed-forward harm in the hopes that the gamble pays off. For many, it doesn't.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by devdas on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @05:04AM (#18119894)
That sounds like a fairly large financial privilege to me. If you are working two jobs to just get enough food to survive, and your friends are in a similar situation, you don't have that opportunity or ability to take risks.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by white-flame on Thursday October 04, 2018 @01:22PM (#18141795)
There are people who simply walk away from it all. None of these issues are truly and specifically "to survive", it's all chasing something.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by jhowell on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @07:21AM (#18120489)
Spoken as someone who denies the safety net beneath their high wire act. For some the risks described and the comforts forgone in the hunt of prosperity are called life. Losing these resources means intense uncertainty of paralyzing outcomes. It's not our job to understand the plight of all around us with compassion, but it does make it easier to justify incongruent rewards they bring.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by taurath on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @11:06AM (#18122353)
> You'd be surprised how much that frees you from the immediate "harm" you describe, but you also have nothing to fall back on..

All the things you described doing are the fallback options - you have to have a family and friends, things to sell, credit to burn. Even then, family or friends have less patience to carry you when you’re taking a moonshot unless they also have a lot they can fall back on.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by white-flame on Thursday October 04, 2018 @12:43PM (#18141490)
Specifically, I meant there's nothing to fall back on at the end if the gamble didn't pay off. Your family/friends are sick of you, you have nothing left to sell, any credit is trashed, and your venture didn't pan out.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by manigandham on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @03:00AM (#18119360)
That's a very complicated situation. People, especially when young, have incredible freedom and really don't need much at all to survive. As they get older, 95% of the responsibilities they take on is their own doing.

That's not a judgement on what they choose, but many times the "lack of privilege" is really they because they made different choices.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by jhowell on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @07:25AM (#18120508)
Or personal health outcomes in themselves or people they care about. As we get older this should not be understated and bears out in personal bankruptcy applications. Good health is the ultimate privilege. Many factors that determine good health are rooted in real privilege (safe streets, clean water, quality diet, free from sexual abuse, etc.)
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by louprado on Monday October 01, 2018 @09:31PM (#18118152)
Nearly every self-help book mentions the importance of goal setting. It is important even for those with a pedigree and born into wealth (I recognize not every student in this study was born into wealth but the median Harvard family earns at least 3 times the national average).

From https://sidsavara.com/why-3-of-harvard-mbas-make-ten-times-a...

“Have you set clear, written goals for your future and made plans to accomplish them?” In 1979, interviewers asked new graduates from the Harvard’s MBA Program and found that :

    84% had no specific goals at all
    13% had goals but they were not committed to paper
    3% had clear, written goals and plans to accomplish them
In 1989, the interviewers again interviewed the graduates of that class. You can guess the results:

The 13% of the class who had goals were earning, on average, twice as much as the 84 percent who had no goals at all.

Even more staggering – the three percent who had clear, written goals were earning, on average, ten times as much as the other 97 percent put together.

Edit: I had often heard of this study and just pasted the first reference I found. I would delete this post, if I could, as its credibility is questionable. Thanks femto.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by femto on Monday October 01, 2018 @09:41PM (#18118194)
Myth, as referred to in an update to the link you provided: https://sidsavara.com/fact-or-fiction-the-truth-about-the-ha...

Though it's claimed that the myth did prompt an actual study (not peer reviewed?)

https://sidsavara.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/researchsum...

Which claims to support a fuzzier notion that writing things down helps achieve a goal.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by PhasmaFelis on Monday October 01, 2018 @09:17PM (#18118104)
Bo Burnham on getting into showbiz: "Don't take advice from guys like me who've gotten very lucky. Taylor Swift telling you to follow your dreams is like a lottery winner saying 'Liquidize your assets! Buy Powerball tickets! It works!'"

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-JgG0ECp2U)

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by UpshotKnothole on Monday October 01, 2018 @09:36PM (#18118171)
Ah Taylor Swift, she didn’t really win the lottery though, or if she did, she was able to start off buying a loooooot of tickets. Her father worked for Merril Lynch, from three generations of bank presidents. Her mother worked in finance. When she was 14 her father moved the family to Nashville and worked for Merril Lynch there, and invested in a record label called Big Machine to the tune of $120,000. This was the company that first signed her.

She grew up rich, with the freedom to pursue her passion from the age of 10, when her mother would take her to karaoke contests. The ability to up stakes and move to Nashville, to have your father buy your way into a record label... well... it doesn’t overshadow her natural ability, but it helps to explain how she was able to leverage it so effectively.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by phakding on Monday October 01, 2018 @09:55PM (#18118246)
You probably misunderstood the post you replied to.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by andrewaylett on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @04:25AM (#18119703)
Even with all those advantages, success isn't guaranteed. I think you're reinforcing the parent's point, which I read that Taylor Swift was given the opportunity to follow her dreams and that worked out really well for her; that doesn't make it good advice for other people to follow, especially if they don't have the advantages she had.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by tomnipotent on Monday October 01, 2018 @10:06PM (#18118299)
> She grew up rich

Exactly - she won the lottery being born into a rich white family in the U.S.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by UpshotKnothole on Monday October 01, 2018 @10:17PM (#18118343)
She won more lotteries than that. She won the lottery of being born rich, white, and connected. And in a country like the US. She won the lottery of being beautiful, of having an excellent voice and musical talent, of having parents willing to use their money and power to further her career of choice. She won the lottery of not having any crippling mental illnesses or learning disabilities, of not being sexually assaulted, and more lotteries besides.

But Bo Burnham’s quote really isn’t about that, he’s talking about getting lucky and having your career take off. The truth is that many many lotteries typically need to be won before you can even enter that lottery. My point was that Taylor Swift didn’t just “take a chance” on music, she used all of her existing wins to stack the deck in her favor. If you look at a lot of CEO’s the same is true of them, and it’s not just the luck of their career taking off, but the luck of ever being in a position to have that happen.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by icebraining on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @06:30AM (#18120283)
of not being sexually assaulted

Nitpick, but this isn't actually true (see lawsuit she won), and we don't really have any way to know if it was true even before she became famous. I agree with your general point, though.

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @10:43AM (#18122147)
> But Bo Burnham’s quote really isn’t about that, he’s talking about getting lucky and having your career take off.

I think it was about both. Later in the clip he says to Conan O'Brien "We're tall white guys, we overcame nothing to get here."

Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by manigandham on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @02:57AM (#18119348)
There is nothing wrong with leveraging your opportunities. Most people don't even do that and would be surprised at just how far they can get if they did.
Re:The annoying habits of highly effective people by Aeolun on Tuesday October 02, 2018 @07:52AM (#18120649)
I’m sure if you are born just right, things will start looking up for you soon.