We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18016292.

It'd be funny but since he was born in South Africa he's disqualified from running.

He also doesn't want to be president.

Of the US.

Vice president then.

Ted Cruz was born in Canada. The naturalization requirement is a lot looser than you might think.

He was born a US citizen though. The requirement isn't that you are born on US soil, but that you are born a US citizen. John McCain was born in Panama.

John McCain's citizenship was more complicated than most people realize. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#Jo....

huh. I never realized this. Thanks for the link.

McCain is distinguishable from Cruz' case though. He was born on a Naval Air Base in a US territory (the Canal Zone) which is legally a lot closer to US soil than Canada is--and some of the old common law precedents specifically address cases like this.

technically it says you must be a 'natural born' us citizen. who the hell knows what that means. If we assume the framers were well-read and fans of shakespeare, this means that anyone born by caesarean section is disqualified from holding the highest office. They were wise enough to know that the dermal microbiome of c-section children is destabilizing creates individuals of temperament ill-suited for the role.

There's a pretty well-accepted interpretation of what it means. There have been presidential eligibility challenges: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#El...

Well accepted is not the same thing as legally ruled.

The requirement is that you be a "natural born" citizen.

That said, although legal scholars can have how many angels can dance on the head of a pin debates about this, the most reasonable interpretation is probably that they're US citizens/eligible for US citizenship from birth. If push ever came to shove on this question, one would hope the courts would side with the most liberal interpretation.

Can you find case law that says that?

I defend facts, not Ted Cruz:

"The candidate is a natural born citizen by virtue of being born in Canada to his mother who was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth."

Ted's parents were US Citizens. Are Musk's?

Requirements for the Presedent are diffrent than that of a Senator.

Place of birth does not matter for the House or Senate. Only need to be a US citizen.

For the President it's a "higher standard" you must be a native born Citizen.

"Natural born" citizen.

Which isn't 100% defined and legal scholars can and do argue the edge cases based on lots of things including very old British common law antecedents. The consensus seems to equal citizen from birth although some disagree.

Ted Cruz has run for president in the past.

"No Person except a natural born Citizen ... shall be eligible to the Office of President"

Natural born means "citizen at birth", not "born in the US"> One can also be a citizen at birth (under certain circumstances) by having parent(s) who are U.S. citizens. Ted Cruz unequivocably meets this standard.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_Stat...

Ted Cruz was a candidate for U.S. President two years ago.

Elon is not a natural born citizen of the US (He's South African), he is ineligible for the presidency.

Didn't stop Ted Cruz from running, did it?

Natural born citizen is not unambiguously defined. However, the common interpretation is citizen from birth, which Cruz was by virtue of having a mother who was a US citizen.

The clause in the US Constitution is brief and potentially ambiguous, but there has been no shortage of lawsuits about presidential eligibility and the legal definition in practice seems to be quite unambiguous.

For example, regarding Ted Cruz:

> Two November 2015 ballot challenges in New Hampshire alleging that Cruz was not a natural-born citizen were unsuccessful. In December, a similar lawsuit was filed in Vermont, and an unsuccessful lawsuit was filed in Florida. In January 2016, similar lawsuits were unsuccessfully filed in Texas and Utah, and two similar unsuccessful ballot challenges were filed in Illinois. In February, two similar unsuccessful lawsuits were filed in Pennsylvania and one was filed in Arkansas; a similar lawsuit was filed in Alabama; similar unsuccessful ballot challenges were filed in Indiana; and similar ballot challenges and an unsuccessful similar lawsuit were also filed in New York. In March, a similar lawsuit was filed in New York. In April, a similar ballot challenge was unsuccessfully filed in New Jersey.

> No lawsuit or challenge has been successful, and in February 2016, the Illinois Board of Elections ruled in Cruz's favor, stating, "The candidate is a natural born citizen by virtue of being born in Canada to his mother who was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born-citizen_clause#Te...

Which is, frankly, the sensible definition. People would and should rightly look askance at a court decision that found some obscure legal precedent to come to a different decision rather than just letting the voters decide. The question may make for interesting law review articles but there's pretty much zero practical justification for a more stringent definition. (Especially given that even the citizen from birth requirement is arguably something of an anachronism.)

He fits the legal definition of natural born citizen.

are IVF children disqualified? Legal citation on the natural born question, please.

This is "natural" in a legal context not a biological context. What this generally amounts to meaning is that you met the requirements of being a citizen when you were born. This doesn't specify a method of birth (cesarean or otherwise), but instead that you're either born to existing citizen parents, on us soil, or on otherwise recognized us territory (Puerto Rico, military bases, embassy grounds in a foreign country I think also can count) and I believe I've heard that an exception to this is that you're not being born to diplomats on official foreign government business, because not all countries recognize dual citizenship and forcefully giving the newborn US citizenship could cause diplomatic issues with the other country.

The Constitution doesn't define "natural born citizen" but the majority of scholars take it to mean "citizen by virtue of birth" rather than "citizen by virtue of naturalization."

I have no idea why you're talking about IVF children, they aren't legally different from naturally conceived children.

He is a citizen by birth, not through naturalization.

IVF is irrelevant if the biological parents are known and in a relationship, or if the birth is inside the U.S. In particular you cannot gain citizenship through donated sperm, though.

Aside from the fact that he's not born in the US, he doesn't seem like a good orator.

"isn't a good orator"... Given that Trump is in office that doesn't seem to be a deal breaker

Trump is a good orator. His messaging works for his target audience. Doesn't mean he is a good person.

Trump is far from being a poet but he is a good orator and in the very least an effective communicator.

It should be noted that a common aspect to practically all US presidential candidates is that they all dumb down their communication style when running election campaigns, as that's a key aspect of all winning candidacies.

From many of the interviews I have seen/read, he really only seems to care about human beings becoming a multi-planetary species. Everything else is a side show - means to an end. I know you were lampooning both him and the current administration simultaneously, but I still have faith in ole musky and his space ambitions. Right now it would only take one big uninvited space rock for the party to be over, but if we were on a couple other planets the party might go on!

uninvited space rocks == bad

Musk didn't have a major network invest in his name as part of their reality-TV branding. It's true that investing and tech circles are aware of him, but he's not a very well known brand to middle America, which would be key.

Not being a natural-born citizen would still be a hurdle.