The WPA3 functionality is already added to hostapd and wpa_supplicant [1]. Look for the terms SAE (Simultaneous Authentication of Equals), DPP (Device Provisioning Protocol) and OWE (Opportunistic Wireless Encryption).

The current experimental wpa_supplicant Debian package has this enabled [2]. I think the main challenge is upgrading clients, especially when vendors no longer provide updates.

[1] https://w1.fi/cgit/hostap/log/?qt=grep&q=SAE

[2] https://packages.qa.debian.org/w/wpa/news/20180722T152029Z.h...

Nobody is claiming you'll be on WPA3 tomorrow, just that it's here, and that you'll eventually migrate to it unless you never buy anything new again...

In 2018, off the top of my head I can get to 30 devices connected on WiFi at my house. VERY much a different discussion than 2004.

We're adding more and more connected devices:

Phones, tablets, desktops, laptops all typically have a short life..

Smart home devices with WiFi, well, those claim an incredible life - but I really pity anyone putting today's consumer "IoT" devices in. Those things are often out of support before you even buy them. I doubt they are lasting 10 years, and even when I do, I doubt they'll still be safe to leave in place.

TVs and TV set top boxes - this one really bugs me. I want a good quality dumb panel, because the smarts are out of date well within two years, and the TV itself should be good for way longer. TV Boxes, they go out of date too - but there cheap, so get replaced way more often.

Long story short - I think the devices we're buying today are not designed to stand the test of time. They will IMO die out or be removed from your home much faster than we all hope.

Edit addition: also, forgot to mention - I had lots of stuff that was WEP only. Much of it well after WPA2 came out. There all long gone, I expect the same will happen to the vast majority of people.

If you had to keep the door to your house unlocked for 5-10 years would you still consider it relatively short? How about if you couldn't patch your OS for the same length of time?

Being stuck with such vulnerabilities for years is only short if nothing that tech touches is of much value to you.

Such as? You had to go out of your way to find devices that both had wifi and were only WEP capable in the early 2000s.

Same song and dance as USB 1.1, USB 3, USB C, Lightning Cables (relative to iPod dock connectors), and all of our evolving standards. It sucks for a year or two and we move on.

For the purposes of WPA transitions, I’m willing to bet slick dual hand routers will support WPA2/3 split between each channel.

I turn off whatever insecure protocols exist on my router and will do the same once everything I care about can do WPA3. Getting the population at large to do the same is difficult. I’ll evangelize the benefits of switching, but the best way to loose support is to break use cases by pushing people onto something that prevents their positive device experiences.

Awesome! Point me in the direction of the firmware upgrade portal for my 15-year-old wifi printers, computers, and game machines from companies that no longer exist.

I'm not really sure how to interpret your 'Awesome!'. If it was meant snarky and if you're willing to, please have a look at the HN guidelines for comments [1]. We can then improve the quality of the discussion.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're right. I'm sorry about that. Sometimes I forget which web site I'm posting on.

Actually, thinking a bit longer about the problem, the issue in my mind is that vendors/producers do not have an incentive to update software if you only pay for the hardware once. For them it's just a cost. It's more interesting to sell more hardware. My strategy as consumer is to go to open source for such devices. But perhaps there are better strategies.

I'm aware of Cisco having a model to pay for software updates, but this is mainly for business clients. Does anyone know other vendors that have business models, that create incentives for updating devices? Perhaps even for consumers?

I remember that in the past MacOS updates had to be purchased, but this no longer seems to be the case. Is there actually a consumer market for such business models, where hardware and (paid) software are tied together for a longer life cycle?

Well, some people with OS/2, Atari STs, and VAX mainframes are not gonna get extended WiFi security either.

Those that have newer stuff and can afford to switch to new printers and everything after 10 or 15 years, can use it tho, and those would still be tons of users (and more going forward). We moved from old wifi standards anyway (or you don't use WAP2 either?).

For most people it's just their laptops and phones (which they change every few years), printer (which is easily replaceable since the ink replacements they have to do regularly cost more than the main unit (or close) anyway), and maybe some TV or media player unit.

If it doesn't make you worry, there's nothing to do here. WPA3 gives you nothing.

I guess if WPA2 get blown apart (to the degree WEP was) there might be a market for super-low-power APs that you put on or right next to the device. Not sure that'd be enough without additional shielding.

Most WPA2 devices do support 802.1x which —depending on the crack— may help extend the lifetime.

Then, for certain networked things, such as printers, maybe we can hang a Pi-like device off of one of their physical interfaces and have a WPA3 connection, if we so desire and are willing to go through the contortions?

- I can install/upgrade some packages on my OpenWrt router/computers to enable it.

- I can leave a WPA2 SSID for my old gadgets.

> By the time the average person upgrades all their gear to WPA3 stuff, it'll be cracked and we'll be on WPA5.

Perhaps vendors can implement a WPA3/WPA2 mixed mode? Or just use the dual SSID hack...

This isn't advanced, it's pretty common.

It would be great if it actually was common, and such features came pre-configured out of the box for users. Unfortunately, most of the routers I'm aware of that are given to users from ISPs don't even support guest modes.

I don't think there's an easy fix for this and I'm not criticizing WPA3 or anything. Ideally we could just update/throw out old, incompatible devices, but realistically I know that's not going to happen. I'm just pointing out that the suggestion to "keep WPA2 enabled for your old, WPA3-incompatible devices" kinda misses the point about WPA3 in the first place.

If you're vulnerable to compromised coffee shop or home networks already, you're likely to also be vulnerable tomorrow. The only change is a slight increment in the standard. And the worst companies are not going to be saved by any change in the standard.

I guess I don't really see the point of this entire subthread.

There's a false implication here that "keeping WPA2 enabled yesterday" isn't a problem. But it is. There are flaws in WPA2, and fixing those flaws is the entire point of developing WPA3. Security is supposed to get better as time goes on (hackers are certainly getting better whether your security is or not). But security isn't getting better if you just keep using the old standards.

Would you feel comfortable enabling WEP on all your company's routers with the justification "well we're not any more vulnerable today with WEP than we were in 1998 with WEP"?

>I guess I don't really see the point of this entire subthread.

I don't either.

For ordinary users, setting a strong passphrase is all they need to do to have network with improved security, even in the mixed mode.

In addition, you can isolate the WPA2 SSID away (for all those printers, Internet of Trash, some old smartphones that are never going to receive security updates, etc) from the rest of the network, and use strong, and independent passphrases for each network, the compromise of WPA2 would not affect WPA3 to a large extent.

Then what's the point of even developing WPA3? Why not revise WPA2 to just require really long passwords?

And then you have to buy a new garage to put it in, because the old garage was too small

And you have to digitize all your CD's because it only has a phone connection

Except you have to replace your phone, too, because it's too old for Android Auto (or the iPhone equivalent)

It's the ripple-on effect of having to migrate all the devices that vendors don't bother to "fix"

CarPlay. The more you know…

I do think we’re going to see more mixed networking with modern access points supporting multiple networks so you can have your primary devices stay secure while the botnets controlling your IoT fridge and TV duke it out on a different SSID.

I'm pretty sure that the wifi devices I own that were EOL'ed a decade ago aren't going to get a software upgrade. Nor are the ones from companies that are no longer in business.

For most people, I’m expecting primary devices (phones, laptops) to get updates along with newer routers (at least the higher end ones).

The big question is how common the practice of segregating old devices will be since it’s still easy to find things which don’t even do 5GHz and that includes a majority of TVs, Android devices, etc.

  printer is 15-years-old

Of all my printers in the past 20 years none has lived from more than three years. I had the cheap ones as well as the more expensive ones with 3 years warranty.

Note to self: buy laser printer not inkjet.

I think we are moving into the future where ISP provides the router to you, or basically a Unit that combines Modem / ONT / Wireless Router into one. So you will (hopefully) get upgraded every 5 - 8 years.