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Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by drcongo on Sunday September 02, 2018 @04:33AM (#17896189)
Absolutely not. I have the top of the range 15" MacBook Pro and I despise it, it's without question the worst computer I've ever owned.

1. The Touch Bar is appalling if you're at all a touch typist. It puts destructive actions just an accidental brush of the finger tip away. 2. The keyboard is failing all over the place. My left command key has fallen off, and three keys occasionally stick resulting in double entries. 3. The trackpad is so big that there's nowhere to rest one hand while you scroll with the other, resulting in exposé happening when you're just trying to scroll a web page. 4. It crashes a LOT. I reckon roughly one kernel panic a week since I've owned it.

It's absolutely killed my confidence in Apple hardware and after owning Macs for over 20 years I doubt I'll ever buy a Mac again. It's made me a permanently angry person.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by georgebarnett on Sunday September 02, 2018 @07:00AM (#17896541)
If you feel your laptop has made you a permanently angry person, why not sell it and cut your loses?
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by saurik on Sunday September 02, 2018 @12:28PM (#17897516)
After spending a decade optimizing your workflow to work with Apple's operating system, and after investing tons of money into software and peripherals designed for this ecosystem, it isn't so easy to just give up on it all, even if it is pissing you off and making your life miserable: you essentially just sit around having regrets and building up anger at the idiots who screwed it all up.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by tnegoshi on Sunday September 02, 2018 @04:42PM (#17898540)
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by tim333 on Sunday September 02, 2018 @06:39PM (#17899076)
You could always get a second hand one from before the recent 'improvements'. (Typed from a well functioning second hand macbook)
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by some_account on Sunday September 02, 2018 @04:41PM (#17898536)
No, really, you have to leave.

If you don't switch, are you going to use only Apple products your entire life from now? Seriously?

There are many, many devs right now who is switching from MacBooks to Linux machines because Linux on the desktop is really nice (just not perfect), and you suddenly feel very much alive again when you don't sit and wait for Apple to fix your problems. You fix them yourself, and you no longer care for the next version of IOS or the next MacBook etc.

t's freedom, honestly, truly. You are single again. You have left the bad relationship. You are free and happy. So much choice all of a sudden. It's great!

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by sieabahlpark on Sunday September 02, 2018 @08:05PM (#17899355)
I don't want to spend the time to fix them myself.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by nolok on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @09:59AM (#17909048)
There is very little to fix anymore unless you go for exotic hardware. Granted I went very safe with an XPS and Xubuntu, but I don't think I've had a single "how do I make this work" moment.

Ah yes wait one, I had to activate the keyboard switch for the webcam to be detected, but that would have been the same on another os.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by akulbe on Sunday September 02, 2018 @10:49PM (#17899962)
I would also say no, absolutely not. It's not worth it in the least.

I have been a Mac user for less time (~16 years for me) than the previous commenter. I have lost confidence in Apple's ability to deliver:

a. a quality laptop that can get the job done, and

b. a quality OS that I can trust to just work.

I am typing this to you from a Dell XPS 9560 because the 2016 MBP w/Touch Bar has been such a shitshow.

It's been in for repairs THREE TIMES. Between the 2nd and 3rd trip, I switched back to Windows and installed WSL (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10)

Windows, VERY ironically, has proven WAY more stable and reliable than macOS. <-- that blows my mind.

I HAVE tried to sell my MBP even at a significant discount over the purchase price. (bought for $4300, I'm asking $3000 and even lowered to $2500) NO BITES. The machine is in immaculate condition, too.

I would be surprised if the other commenter has not had a similar experience.

If Apple is going to be as mediocre as everyone else, then there's absolutely NO POINT to the price premium, and they won't hold their value like they used to.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by Jeremy1026 on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @10:45AM (#17909377)
"I HAVE tried to sell my MBP even at a significant discount over the purchase price. (bought for $4300, I'm asking $3000 and even lowered to $2500) NO BITES. The machine is in immaculate condition, too."

I think that your problem is that the secondary market doesn't care about specs. They care about the Apple logo on the back, for the most part. So your extra RAM and bigger SSD aren't features to them. They just see the cost is $1000-$1500 more than they could buy a new one for.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by nolok on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @10:03AM (#17909080)
Windows 10 is a surprisingly awesome OS, once you remove the thin layer of crap they spray on it (Google "O&O ShutUp10" for a 20 second fix) and learn to ignore their store. The whole thing is clean, efficient, runs well and freaking works. And like you said, WSL moved it into actually usable territory for developers.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by mr-ron on Sunday September 02, 2018 @11:12AM (#17897256)
Couldn't agree with you more. The new MacBooks are lemons.

The giant trackpad is a huge complaint of mine I don't hear a lot. Why on Earth would apple make it so big??

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by Macha on Sunday September 02, 2018 @12:25PM (#17897506)
People who like trackpads seem to enjoy it bigger. Personally I'm not in the camp, and bring a USB mouse with me anywhere I'm using my work Mac to avoid it.

We definitely seem to be in the minority though, I've heard more complaints that the XPS 15 trackpad is too small than complaints that the Mac trackpad is too large.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by mr-ron on Sunday September 02, 2018 @01:09PM (#17897674)
I like trackpads, I use the native trackpad and keyboard exclusively in the mac and almost never external.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by wingerlang on Monday September 03, 2018 @06:24AM (#17901686)
What's wrong with it? The only thing I could imagine is maybe accidentally touching it?

It happens maybe once a month for me, not nearly enough complain for me. Personally I love the size of it.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by pritambarhate on Sunday September 02, 2018 @10:16AM (#17897068)
Are you running Docker by any chance? I have seen that if I have Docker running and I close the lid of the machine, next time I want to use it, it reboots from a crash.

But if I remember to quit Docker ok once I am done with it, I don't see this problem.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by universenz on Sunday September 02, 2018 @07:20AM (#17896598)
Bruv, look into BetterTouchTool to only enable the touchbar input by using a modification key like fn being pressed first. Still displays info but doesn’t respond without the modifier. It’ll remove at least some if your frustration.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by ajeet_dhaliwal on Sunday September 02, 2018 @07:31AM (#17896617)
I wonder how many people in the world outside the London UK area know what Bruv means.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by richrichardsson on Sunday September 02, 2018 @09:46AM (#17896978)
Unless you live under a rock, I'd say everyone in the UK understands what that means, otherwise it's no great leap of the imagination to hazard a guess, or there's always that new-fangled search thingamy that can help ;-)
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by Someone1234 on Sunday September 02, 2018 @11:25AM (#17897286)
If you don't understand what it means it is confusing, if you do understand it is disrespectful. In either case they shouldn't be starting out posts to strangers with "Bruv, look..."
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by SheinhardtWigCo on Sunday September 02, 2018 @11:31AM (#17897310)
Disrespectful? It’s short for “brother” and is used the same way as “mate” in those parts.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by richrichardsson on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @08:04AM (#17908405)
Could have been worse with an Australian, then it might have been c... :)
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by forgot-my-pw on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @12:02PM (#17909993)
cute
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by richrichardsson on Wednesday September 05, 2018 @05:21AM (#17916340)
75% of those letters were correct.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by scrumbledober on Sunday September 02, 2018 @12:24PM (#17897503)
I live in the US but I have seen kingsmen
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by richrichardsson on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @08:07AM (#17908425)
Exactly! I wonder why it is some people are utterly clueless about popular culture from other countries, I find it fascinating. Probably the same people who are clueless about even their own popular culture.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by forgot-my-pw on Tuesday September 04, 2018 @12:01PM (#17909978)
As a 2012 iMac user, I'm saddened that every macOS upgrade slows down the computer even more...
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by MaxLeiter on Sunday September 02, 2018 @05:57AM (#17896395)
If you’re crashing once a week you’re definitely doing something incorrect on your end. Apple may have poor QA, but there’s no way it’s _that_ poor.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by joefarish on Sunday September 02, 2018 @06:39AM (#17896481)
I don't see how you can blame a user for repeated kernel panic issues.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by xfer on Sunday September 02, 2018 @07:38AM (#17896629)
Apple fan logic in a nut-shell.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by NullPrefix on Sunday September 02, 2018 @07:19AM (#17896594)
You are user spacing it wrong.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by haasisnoah on Sunday September 02, 2018 @11:34AM (#17897321)
Isn't the point of a user space to protect the kernel and keep the OS from crashing?
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by reitanqild on Sunday September 02, 2018 @03:57PM (#17898339)
No.

What userspace is is where you work happens. It has no universal obligation to protect the kernel.

You could possibly say that the point of working in userspace (instead of in kernel space) is to protect the kernel.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by reitanqild on Monday September 03, 2018 @11:10AM (#17902955)
Seems I'm either wrong or I'm punished for being rude.

In the latter case, sorry. I honestly agree I should have caught that.

In the first case my thought process goes as follows (hoping someone knowledgeable will correct me):

- user space may very well contain hostile processes (trojans, rootkits, - even intentionally in the case where a user inspects malware in some kind of container or chroot environment.

- user space may contain mechanisms that attempts to protect the kernel, but a typical kernel (linux, and I guess most other free kernels) cannot rely on it.

- I tried searching for userspace protect kernel and the closest thing I found was the act of separating userspace from kernel space protects the kernel which is what I tried to point out in my post above.

Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by FabHK on Sunday September 02, 2018 @11:32AM (#17897313)
I had very frequent cornel panics on my MBP, but running diagnostics (hold “D” during startup) revealed a hardware issue. After the Apple shop replaced the motherboard, the crashes are gone.
Re:Ask HN: Is the new MacBook Pro worth its value for a deve... by badestrand on Sunday September 02, 2018 @08:29AM (#17896750)
My MacBook Air is also crashing weekly and I don't even do anything demanding (no VMs or video editing or the like).