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Re:Why HP Fell by ahartmetz on Monday August 20, 2018 @06:59AM (#17798969)
The story does not seem very convincing to me. The split between lab instruments and computers - may actually help fix the next problem. The disregard of consumer products - partially fixed later when they managed to sell large numbers of printers and not only business laptops.

So maybe the big problems did start around Fiorina's time after all.

Re:Why HP Fell by flyinghamster on Monday August 20, 2018 @07:37AM (#17799143)
Also, past the LaserJet 5, their printers started taking a nosedive in quality. In my own experience at work, the 1000 didn't last long before it started spewing toner all over the page, and the 4550N, a gigantic color laser with extremely expensive consumables, did likewise.

Don't get me started on their inkjets. Nothing like an all-in-one that won't even let you SCAN when it decides to "expire" a costly printhead.

My policy regarding HP printers: "Never again."

Re:Why HP Fell by mattkevan on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:10AM (#17799590)
Mine too.

I made the mistake of buying an HP printer a few years ago. What a user-hostile piece of junk.

Apparently their ink cartridges are region locked – the first time a cartridge is inserted the printer is permanently set to the cartridge region. I didn't realise this until it rejected the ones I'd got to replace the starter pack.

Even though I'd bought it from a big UK retailer it had shipped with US cartridges, meaning it wouldn't work with any UK HP ink.

HP's support's response was basically ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Their determination to protect revenue by putting stupid roadblocks to buying cheaper HP ink from abroad meant I just bought third-party ink with unlocked chips. They never saw another penny from me on that printer and never will from anything else.

Re:Why HP Fell by drewg123 on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:59AM (#17799903)
I haven't had an HP printer for a while, but I HATE my neighbors' HP printers. They're constantly screaming at max signal strength on almost all 2.4G WIFI channels with their wireless direct printing.
Re:Why HP Fell by Scarblac on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:17AM (#17799631)
What's a brand of printer that doesn't sell the printer at a loss and then has you pay through the nose for tiny cartridges of ink? I made the mistake of buying a Canon once and now I'm looking for a new printer.
Re:Why HP Fell by mikestew on Monday August 20, 2018 @12:47PM (#17801484)
What's a brand of printer that doesn't sell the printer at a loss

Brother B&W laser printer. You want color? Go to Kinkos. That's what we do at our house, at least. It is rare that the printout really needs to be in color, so rare that I can't remember the last time we actually went to Kinkos to print something. And Brother makes a solid printer. Consumables prices? Dunno, I change the toner so rarely. I do remember that the last time I bought one, they were so cheap that I bought two instead of the one I planned.

Re:Why HP Fell by opencl on Monday August 20, 2018 @10:34AM (#17800209)
If you don't do a lot of photo printing I'd highly recommend getting a laser printer. Far more reliable than inkjets, never dry out, and the toner is cheap. I got an $80 black and white Brother nearly a decade ago and it still works fine. These days you can get color laser machines under $200 and the toner remains far cheaper than ink cartridges.

The other way to avoid paying through the nose for tiny ink cartridges is to get a printer with refillable ink, i.e. Epson's EcoTank branded models or one of the many third party refillable cartridge solutions. But these always end up drying out and clogging if they're not used frequently enough.

Re:Why HP Fell by ams6110 on Monday August 20, 2018 @10:58AM (#17800466)
I second the laser printer for people who only print occasionally. I have a cheap Samsung ML-1710 laser printer. Bought it for under $100. Unfortunately neither Apple nor Foomatic include drivers for it any longer so it's become a doorstop. If anyone knows where to find a working driver from a reputable source I'd love to know.

Edit: Apparently splix driver works for this one.

https://www.openprinting.org/driver/splix

I swear the ML-1710 model did not show up last time I checked the printer list. Maybe I just missed it.

Re:Why HP Fell by mpol on Monday August 20, 2018 @12:11PM (#17801128)
Samsung gives out drivers for download. A simple search found it:

https://driver-samsung.com/samsung-printer-ml-1710-drivers/

I own a ML-1660 for now 7 years and the drivers still work fine for me. Just no duplex printing, which is a shame.

Re:Why HP Fell by ams6110 on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:24PM (#17803618)
Yes but the drivers they have don't work on current MacOS. Mac OS X (Tiger) v10.4 is the latest.
Re:Why HP Fell by secabeen on Monday August 20, 2018 @06:24PM (#17804600)
Interestingly, this is to some degree an Apple problem. Microsoft has no problem supporting printer drivers from Windows 7 (or before) in Windows 10, or Windows XP drivers in Windows 7. It's so very Apple to regularly throw out history.
Re:Why HP Fell by abawany on Monday August 20, 2018 @06:54PM (#17804831)
I was able to get a Ricoh 250SF (all-in-one color laser with fax) for under $200 last year. It is an overbuilt and heavy tank with slight driver unfriendliness but I have no complaints with its superb print quality, ability to scan to a USB drive/Samba share/email, and good support on Win 7/8/10 and OSX.
Re:Why HP Fell by sevensor on Monday August 20, 2018 @11:03AM (#17800520)
Brother also has halfway decent Linux drivers, depending on the model. We have one in the office. It's mostly OK, except I can't un-confuse it about letter versus A4, and it won't duplex. But at least it doesn't lock up hard when I send it print jobs, like the Canon does.
Re:Why HP Fell by timfoden on Monday August 20, 2018 @11:32AM (#17800766)
I asked myself the same sort of question a couple of years ago and ended up buying an Epson L355.

This printer has ink tanks on the side that you refill, and tubes going to the print head. The ink refills are way cheaper than normal "attached-to-the-print-head" ones on a price-to-volume-of-ink basis. Also there's no way for the printer to tell whether or not Epson branded ink was used.

The only problems I have with it are:

(1) it's WiFi seems to drop the DHCP lease after it auto-powers off, so I fix this by telling the router to always give it a fixed address, otherwise the PC's that saw the printer before can no longer talk to it, and

(2) over time the odd "pins" on the print head get gummed up, and you have to run the process to fix this through a number of cycles to fix them all.

Re:Why HP Fell by indigodaddy on Monday August 20, 2018 @11:44AM (#17800871)
I've had an Epson Workforce 845 for many many years and it's been an excellent printer, and I buy the aftermarket ink usually. Even though I use it nominally, I don't think it's an ink hog like the other big names..
Re:Why HP Fell by dragonwriter on Monday August 20, 2018 @01:01PM (#17801608)
> What's a brand of printer that doesn't sell the printer at a loss and then has you pay through the nose for tiny cartridges of ink?

You can't tell by brand (at least company) because all the manufacturers do it at the low end, because the dynamics at the low end of the market make it a losing strategy to do otherwise.

Re:Why HP Fell by Avamander on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:10AM (#17799593)
My policy regarding HP is the exact opposite. It's so far the easiest I've ever seen in terms of setup on Linux and the trusty b/w laser has spewed out thousands of pages by now without toner change.
Re:Why HP Fell by krisroadruck on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:08AM (#17799585)
Odd, I've gotten to the point where HP printers are the only ones I trust. I've had issues with just about every other major manufacturer of printers, but my HPs always held up like tanks. The only issue I've ever encountered with them seems universal among all inkjets. Namely that the ink cartridges seem to dry out if you don't use them often, even if they ought to have a lot of life left. Perhaps I've just had a lucky streak with HP? My personal nemesis brand for printers is Lexmark.
Re:Why HP Fell by dhimes on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:49AM (#17799826)
I'm with you on this. My Lexmark was great as it worked with Linux- until it crapped out and became useless. Now my HP (inkjet) is pretty dependable. Disclaimer: I don't print very much.
Re:Why HP Fell by madengr on Monday August 20, 2018 @08:23AM (#17799330)
Ditto. I’ll never buy another HP product. They are now the purveyors of garbage computers and printers. The mid 90’s printers, scanners, and Apollo workstations were the pinnacle of quality. The 85xx line of test equipment was even beyond that. I don’t think something like those would even be attempted now.

The true HP is Keysight, though they have quality issues now.

The tile floors were to find small parts when dropped, and minimize dust and static electricity. The computer jockeys were in the wrong.

Re:Why HP Fell by specialist on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:32AM (#17799718)
In the 90s, HP engineers used to visit our offices, just to see how we used their gear. Printers, large format plotters, workstations, networking, etc. They'd cold call me, arrange visits, hang out for a while.

I'd see how they take our feedback and improve their products.

I don't think I've loved another brand as much as I loved HP, back in the day.

Alas, things change.

Re:Why HP Fell by joezydeco on Monday August 20, 2018 @12:13PM (#17801147)
Except the computer jockeys probably wanted carpeting to cut down on the noise.

It's insanely hard to concentrate in an open-office bullpen with every surface being a hard noise-reflective one.

Re:Why HP Fell by eropple on Monday August 20, 2018 @11:08AM (#17800574)
The HP Spectre 13 is emphatically not garbage. Beautiful machine, great screen, good keyboard. If the keyboard was a little better, and if their support was a little more sane, I would still be using the one I traded in for a ThinkPad T480.
Re:Why HP Fell by tonyedgecombe on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:21AM (#17799655)
I think it started before the 5, we used to track failures and the 4 was worse than the 3. This wasn't unique though, it happened across the industry.
Re:Why HP Fell by guidedlight on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:02AM (#17799548)
The LaserJet 4 used Canon internals, but was a robust printer otherwise. LaserJet 5 onwards continued the outsourcing trend.
Re:Why HP Fell by gaius on Monday August 20, 2018 @07:37AM (#17799147)
Agreed. It’s classic “Innovator’s Dilemma” stuff right up until the Fiorina era which was just wanton destruction for the sake of being seen to do something but having no idea what.
Re:Why HP Fell by Spooky23 on Monday August 20, 2018 @11:23AM (#17800708)
HP was like West Coast IBM, complete with the paternalistic (although a different style) culture and history of fat margins.

The problem is that they started acquiring things too late, and bought mostly crap that didn't have a big moat around them. IBM exists because they made smart sales 50-60 years ago that are still returning value to the company in the form of maintenance, services and complementary sales.

HP chose unwisely and bought into legacy platforms that weren't as sticky.

Re:Why HP Fell by indigodaddy on Monday August 20, 2018 @11:41AM (#17800839)
Does whatever form of "HP" still actually manufacture laptops, or is the name just licensed out now? Haven't followed or looked at HP laptops in forever..