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Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by themagician on Sunday August 19, 2018 @03:11PM (#17795702)
Social media wasn’t always like this. I think back to the ways I used Twitter, Facebook and Instagram in the early days and they were completely different than they way they are used today. They were personal, real time, and no one cared about “likes”.

I think a lot of the problems with social media today could be solved just by removing “the numbers.” If suddenly all the like, follower, following, and comment counts disappeared I suspect people would use these things fundamentally differently. I see people browsing through IG tapping to like for 20 minutes at a time and think to myself, “why are you even doing that?” It’s a compulsion that does nothing.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by DanielBMarkham on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:35PM (#17796037)
Also sharing.

Taking the time to save a link/picture, go to another site, and typing in a description and comments on material? Great. Seeing a cat picture and instantaneously clicking "share"?

Screw that. That kind of behavior is in the website's interest, not mine. It creates an endless stream of slightly-interesting material from people I know, just enough to keep me watching but not enough to feel like anything got done.

Spending time doing something compulsively that later you realize was a waste of time, then doing it again? That's addiction. I don't know what kind of addiction it is. It's certainly less addictive than opiods. But it's no doubt addictive -- and it is currently affecting billions of people worldwide.

It's an amazing amount of societal damage that nobody will ever be able to quantify. We'll never know the books that weren't read, the inventions that weren't made, or the people that weren't helped because somebody was watching social media.

(And before somebody talks about how great it is to have the planet connected, it is! Being able to communicate and research is nowhere near the same thing as having your head stuck in your phone eight hours a day)

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by bdhess on Monday August 20, 2018 @12:36AM (#17797758)
> It's an amazing amount of societal damage that nobody will ever be able to quantify. We'll never know the books that weren't read, the inventions that weren't made, or the people that weren't helped because somebody was watching social media.

Individuals have a right to recreation; they don't need to spend every waking moment being useful to society. The alternative is dystopian.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by adrianN on Monday August 20, 2018 @07:42AM (#17799160)
I don't like when "recreation" is something that is aggressively optimized to be addictive, err, I mean to "increase engagement". Billions are spend to keep people scrolling through their feeds as long as possible. That's different from taking a walk in the park or playing a game of cards with your friends.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by bdhess on Monday August 20, 2018 @01:39PM (#17801986)
This isn’t a new phenomenon. All of the arguments you’re making were made in the twentieth century about gambling.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by adrianN on Monday August 20, 2018 @02:02PM (#17802220)
Are you arguing that we should forbid minors from using social networks and require them to tell users that what they're doing is addictive and to seek help when they notice signs of addiction? Maybe we should also strictly regulate using social networks over the Internet...
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by njarboe on Sunday August 19, 2018 @06:20PM (#17796500)
Most people in the US spend an amazing amount of time watching TV. The average for adults is about 5 hours a day[1]. Not sure if I really believe these numbers, as many people have the TV on when doing something else (I hope), but most people don't choose to do something "productive" with their free time.

Is social media better that TV? I would say social media has more value and is more likely to cause damage, but avoiding both is probably a good idea. I try not to eat much ice cream either.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_consumption

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by jstarfish on Monday August 20, 2018 @01:40PM (#17801999)
I don't think it makes sense to draw a line. The same psychological manipulations we see going on with social media were tried and tested first with television decades ago.

Every minor thing is "breaking news!" and needless drama stirred up to keep you watching, in between the half a dozen tickers and counters on the screen with pointless metrics to look important and soak up your attention.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by some_account on Monday August 20, 2018 @08:57AM (#17799524)
I think it's because work makes people tired so all they want to do is rest, and then tv comes on....
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by themagician on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:50PM (#17796109)
The planet was just connected before Facebook with AIM or ICQ. Perhaps moreso, really, since you actually had to talk to people.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by amag on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:28PM (#17796008)
> I see people browsing through IG tapping to like for 20 minutes at a time and think to myself, “why are you even doing that?” It’s a compulsion that does nothing.

This. If nothing else scared me away from social networks the mind-numbing scroll-like-scroll-like behavior I see the users/addicts exhibit sure does.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by TAForObvReasons on Sunday August 19, 2018 @03:23PM (#17795756)
The problem is that the numbers obsession is what drives KPI. Without the "internet points" people wouldn't spend as much time on those sites grinding points, leading to less ad revenue. The economics are fully aligned with the user behavior we see now, and many psychologists and others warned about this over the years
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by themagician on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:14PM (#17795953)
In the short term I agree with you. But it decreases the long term value and utility of the platform IMO.

Take Instagram. It used to be a platform for posting pictures. It was a digital version of Polaroid—an “instant” camera. When you look on Instagram now it’s core functionality and differentiation is basically gone. When you look on the explore tab you are hard pressed to find any photos at all, let alone ones that were taken with the camera itself.

Instagram now is no different than Facebook or any other generic network, it’s just the biggest. The content is nonsensical and people will eventually get bored of it. At some point I think it occurs to every user, “why am I even doing this” and they bounce, so it always requires new users coming in to grow the userbase.

IG is now easy, from a technical standpoint, to replace as it has no real identity. Just let people post whatever for internet points. Socially it’s hard to topple, but that’s hard to defend long term and somewhat out of your control.

I just don’t see how or why IG exists ten years from now. For what? At least in its original incarnation it had a purpose, however niche, which might have had some long term viability.

I think the best example of this is probably looking at the Chinese social apps like YY, Inke and Meipai. A billion people who don’t give a shit about Kylie Jenner and are developing apps with far more interesting features than anything we have.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by ohnoesmyscv on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:22PM (#17795980)
IG content isn’t nonsensical IMO. The content on IG is generally of higher quality and visually curated. It’s also a better platform for showcasing your brand if you’re in the ecommerce space than FB Pages for example.

Granted, there are accounts that are dedicated to memes and other ‘nonsensical’ content, but you get much more of that on FB. Putting IG in the same trash pile that FB is in is unfair.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by themagician on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:42PM (#17796073)
It’s only for ecommerce. You are either selling a product or selling yourself for likes. Every post is an ad. The amount of sharing that happens the today on IG is the same amount of sharing that happens when you watch a TV commercial.

It’s nuanced, but fundamental different from the photo sharing sites that came before it like Flickr.

The share button may as well be replaced with “Promote” because that’s what it is.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by Apocryphon on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:38PM (#17796052)
However, Instagram's reliance on the number of views, likes, followers, and so on still puts it in the same category as Facebook and its likes, Twitter and its retweets and favorites, LinkedIn and its likes and comments, YouTube and its upvotes and comments and subscribes... and so on. It's still a metric-driven network, even if the content happens to be better. And what is showcasing your brand if not grinding for better numbers?
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by peterxpark on Monday August 20, 2018 @09:11AM (#17799597)
For FB, there's Facebook Demetricator which removes all those #s, works only for desktop browsers unfortunately. Not affiliated in any way, just a fan and surprised I only discovered it very recently.

https://bengrosser.com/projects/facebook-demetricator/

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by demetricator on Monday August 20, 2018 @01:39PM (#17801990)
Thanks for mentioning (I created the Demetricator). For those interested, I also have one for Twitter and one for Instagram (both desktop browser-based only).

https://bengrosser.com/projects/twitter-demetricator/ https://bengrosser.com/projects/instagram-demetricator/

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by Apocryphon on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:41PM (#17796068)
Funnily enough, Snapchat doesn't seem to have this particular downside. It has points/scoring, but they were always somewhat hidden away and I'm not sure if anyone took them very seriously. Like the rest of the app's UX, and sort of ranking cryptic and obfuscated (like the emojis signifying how your friends compared to you) and not made into an emphasis.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by incompatible on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:52PM (#17796117)
I had the impression some people were obsessed with the "streak" feature on Snapchat.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by pubutil on Sunday August 19, 2018 @06:15PM (#17796469)
I know people who are obsessed with maintaining streaks on Snapchat, but I see the effects of a streak as different from the effects of the likes and shares mentioned above. While both mechanisms encourage users to use their platform more, keeping a Snapchat streak with friends puts an emphasis on actually communicating with individual people instead of blasting content across the platform.

Whether or not that communication between individuals is high-quality will vary from person to person, though.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by adjkant on Sunday August 19, 2018 @06:13PM (#17796462)
A streak is a 1-5 minute thing at most for those who are obsessed with it. Many people in that category send out a single "streak" snap to everyone they have a streak with. You can't spend the same 20 minutes of Instagram scrolling with streaks. I don't think it's a completely harmless thing, but it's not in the same category at all.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by kristofferR on Monday August 20, 2018 @08:50AM (#17799477)
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by ponderatul on Monday August 20, 2018 @01:22AM (#17797877)
The toxicity in Snapchat comes from its filter culture, and how they're abused to create a fake and frankly disturbing and disgusting standard of beauty
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by themagician on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:43PM (#17796080)
You’re right.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by Jedd on Sunday August 19, 2018 @06:14PM (#17796464)
> ... the ways I used Twitter [etc]

> ... completely different than they way they are used today.

Are you conflating the way that you would interact with a social media site, and the way that most people would -- rather than comparing both sets of people over time?

TFA's focus is on the addictive aspect of FB (etc) -- and clearly FB (etc) are constantly improving their psychological toolkit in order to obtain and retain eyeballs -- but I don't think the quantifying of likes is the main tool in their kit. Worse, they're not likely to voluntarily reduce the efficacy of their methods.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by joe_the_user on Sunday August 19, 2018 @04:39PM (#17796063)
I'm one Facebook a lot and even on the rather leftward side and I don't experience any extreme toxicity (though I hear a lot about it). Some of my friends care about likes but mostly when they feel they're being ignored.

I administer a large-ish group where respectful discussion is non-negotiable. It works, it serves it's purpose.

I think "good moderation" is basically the answer for toxicity.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by mng42 on Monday August 20, 2018 @03:10AM (#17798202)
Agree-> 'good moderation'
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by reciprocity on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @12:00AM (#17806865)
Please put more substance in your comments.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by blueicecubes on Monday August 20, 2018 @12:24PM (#17801262)
> "good moderation"

pun intended

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by blablabla123 on Tuesday August 21, 2018 @02:57AM (#17807609)
> Social media wasn’t always like this. I think back to the

> ways I used Twitter, Facebook and Instagram in the early

> days and they were completely different than they way they

> are used today. They were personal, real time, and no one

> cared about “likes”.

Yup, also when considering how this all evolved. Before that there were Newsgroups (mega techy) and various online forums/chats. They were a little trashy but people were very engaged. On the other hand pseudonymity was omnipresent, Facebook was the first big one to change that. Now there are far more users and far less online communities.

Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by simmanian on Monday August 20, 2018 @02:46PM (#17802647)
My experience with Facebook "in the early days" is different in that I very much cared about how many likes I got on my posts and updates, whereas now I absolutely do not care.
Re:Facebook addiction linked to staking your self-worth on s... by bachbach on Monday August 20, 2018 @04:31PM (#17803677)
And using real names and real photographs ironically makes most of us less genuine.