Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a programmer?

Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by akudha on Sunday August 05, 2018 @02:22PM (#17692663)

Not me personally, but the company I started my career with (was an intern there for a few months).

ERM software. When a new client comes onboard, install the product and database, but make sure not to make any optimizations, not even the basic indexes in the DB. Depending on the usage, the DB will get slower and slower in a few months. Then send a "consultant" who will simply run a script and add indexes etc and test a bit (no more than an afternoon worth of effort) and charge a high fee for it.

We had a project once for conversion (not getting into details). My team found a tool online. Boss bought it, finished the entire project in one day. Boss bills for month (which was the original estimate), puts the team to work on another project for the next 29 days, gets paid for that too. The only decent thing in this story is that we didn't know before the quote, that such a tool was available. Some would say this is smart way to do business, it felt shitty for me though.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by Raed667 on Sunday August 05, 2018 @03:03PM (#17692880)

For the second part, I dont think about it as you sold a month of work. You just agreed with a customer that this task is worth X amount of money. If you managed to do it in one hour, that's just good business.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by radicalbyte on Sunday August 05, 2018 @04:27PM (#17693356)

In this case you got lucky; other times you'll underestimate the amount of effort required. In the end it'll even out.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by scott-smith_us on Sunday August 05, 2018 @06:13PM (#17693844)

I still think they could have charged for less than the full month. The goodwill and trust that would have engendered would probably have been more than worth it in the long run.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by user5994461 on Sunday August 05, 2018 @08:01PM (#17694254)

Absolutely not. The client will either take you as shady or incompetent for being that much wrong in your estimate.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by r00fus on Monday August 06, 2018 @01:16AM (#17695232)

That's not ethical if it's a time&materials statement work agreement (because it's an estimate; if the actual work takes 10% over you bill that).

If it was a fixed-bid, then yeah it's completely fine. Though usually I'd say there should be a bit more time spent delivering some additional (canned) documentation and the like.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by maxxxxx on Sunday August 05, 2018 @06:51PM (#17694004)

That would require that you eat up the cost if something takes more time. Most of the time the customer will pay for the additional time or at least part of it.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by Moru on Sunday August 05, 2018 @05:52PM (#17693748)

We had a 'missing indexes' consultant do a big job for us. The database quickly got really slow. Needlessly to say we do not hire them any more and do not recommend them to anyone else. The index problem I fixed in five minutes plus eight hours waiting time.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by nyolfen on Sunday August 05, 2018 @02:32PM (#17692720)

i wouldn't sweat it, a lot of economic activity is just information arbitrage.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by FLUX-YOU on Sunday August 05, 2018 @03:04PM (#17692884)

Sounds like a dream job or a nice side gig if you just want a job. Login, run script, log out, bill for thousands, then go back to doing your own thing.

Intentionally withholding stuff without offering an upfront option is shady though.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by kpil on Sunday August 05, 2018 @05:25PM (#17693617)

I remember this guy that automated his own job while working on distance... In the end he had a full time job automated into a couple of hours a month. https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/93696/is-it-un...

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by shpx on Sunday August 05, 2018 @03:56PM (#17693175)

https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/93696/is-it-un...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14656945

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by hkai on Sunday August 05, 2018 @09:27PM (#17694564)

Where do you draw the line? My grandma was once contacted by a scammer who offered to "optimize" her laptop, and she ended up paying roughly the same as the price of a new laptop.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by TeMPOraL on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:58AM (#17695173)

Yeah, that's in fact a good test for whether your work might be unethical - if you're relying on information arbitrage, you're screwing someone over.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by marktangotango on Sunday August 05, 2018 @06:35PM (#17693944)

Car mechanics do this all the time, so what if an experienced mechanic can do a task in 1/10 the time, they always charge for the book time.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by TeMPOraL on Monday August 06, 2018 @01:04AM (#17695192)

We have a mechanic now that constantly surprises us by billing us something like 2-5x times less than we expected. Turns out, he's good, and he bills us for actual time spent and parts cost. Like last time, I expected to pay ~$270, ended up paying $65 - $32.5 for parts, $32.5 for work time.

This guy only takes work from existing customers and people referred by them, because it's widely known in the local community that he's good, and has way more people wanting his services that he can handle. He could rise his prices, but it turns out, he's a decent human being.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by konschubert on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:43AM (#17695552)

I hope he has all the money he needs to live happy and safe. Because else I'd feel like the ethical thing for him would be to charge more.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by TeMPOraL on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:24AM (#17695752)

I think so. I kind of wish he increased his prices a bit, because he deserves it; I like him not because he's cheap, but because he's honest.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by 0xfeba on Sunday August 05, 2018 @08:17PM (#17694324)

Mechanical work is straightforward though, and book time can be a bit liberal but is otherwise fair.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by jweather on Monday August 06, 2018 @11:18AM (#17698342)

Are you a mechanic? It's only straightforward when everything goes according to the book, which is a welcome surprise, but certainly not the norm.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by anotheramala on Monday August 06, 2018 @11:36AM (#17698535)

An IT person who used to do be an engineer on a merchant ship told me that in IT finding the problem takes time but the fix is quick. But in physical mechanical work finding the problem is usually easy but the fix takes time. Sounds cute at least!

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by tonyedgecombe on Sunday August 05, 2018 @04:34PM (#17693392)

I've had a couple of customers that double bill their own clients, I never stuck around long once I realised what they were doing.

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Re:Ask HN: What is the most unethical thing you've done as a... by Zelmor on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:18AM (#17696376)

Are they by any chance working with AX Dynamics?

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