The loudness of American and status is an interesting question.

I suspect that the observation by Taleb that high status people talk more softly needs a caveat. I think people who know they have status talk more softly to convey that they don't have to fight for attention. And such signaling naturally requires the situation allow people to notice.

Which is to say in that in a more primal situation, where no one knows anyone's status, being loud and aggressive is the way to gain status when status is not yet established. And this seems like source of American loudness, America being a nation where many seek status and the hierarchy of status is often not established.

I think it’s more a sign of insecurity. Insecure people want to signal some status, so they feel the need to talk loudly and make a show of themselves.

But what about confident people who know that talking loudly and occupying the field is sending dominating signals ?

If they were truly confident then I don't think they'd be seeking that type of external validation.

Who says they're seeking anything? It seems more likely they're simply trying to communicate or make a connection

It depends on the venue, loud people tend to aggregate in loud coffee shops etc because that's the environment they like.

You can sometimes cross the street and the environment in a cafe is the complete opposite.

I noticed this and thought maybe it's because in the bay area there are a lot of choices for everything (restaurants, cafes) so everyone gets in their little niche. Maybe in your place of origin there is less variety?

All the quiet people are taking advantage of the mountains and miles of miles of quiet wilderness across the state. Leaving only loud people in the cities. I have no proof to back this up.

I don't know about all the quiet people, but I fall into your generalization. I'm on vacation and while I've enjoyed the places I've been I can wait to get home to some peace and quiet where I can curse my refrigerator for being so noisy. (It is just fine, but when it is all you can hear it starts to seem loud.)

Oddly, when I go hiking in the forest what often happens is I can hear two people, miles away, yapping at each other at the tops of their lungs.

I like the peace when hiking, except in bear country. I don't mind a loud mouth in the group so we don't sneak up on things that cause injury to life and limb.

A bear bell is still more pleasant than the sound of certain kinds of human voices.

It's about a need to control the conversation and a corresponding fear of losing that control.

As a counter-stereotype, I find that French people do exactly the same, so do South Americans.

Have you been to Italy?

I'm from Italy, from Rome, now living in Milan.

Romans are generally louder then people from Milan, but often foreigners are louder than us, especially South Americans and Americans (from USA).

On the contrary, Chinese and northern African are quiter.

French sound nicher to many, so they usually don't notice their loudness, but in my experience they usually make more noise than Italians, are more rude with the waiters and complain a lot.

I think it all depends on the setup, Italian restaurant are usually family businesses, cheap enough that you could eat there everyday, where tables are mostly very close to one another, if you are too loud people at other tables can easily be annoyed by the noise, while French restaurant have more space between tables and they feel free to turn the volume up a bit and it becomes an habit.

I am personally a very private person and I don't like being loud cause I don't want other people's to listen to what I'm saying, which is very easy if the other table is literally 50 cm away, and have developed an habit of being extremely quite, such as I have a very hard time having a normal conversation when I'm abroad and everyone scream (for my standards)

It is true tough that we are famous for "making a scene" it's not uncommon to go to the restaurant and find a couple fighting loudly

I put Italians in the middle of the bar, on average.

And as a native Californian, I am always amazed at the amount of second hand smoke I encounter when I visit Europe. So maybe we can call it even :P

Things have changed a lot across Europe over the past decade or so, with smoking in bars, restaurants, clubs and other public spaces illegal across much of Europe. Honestly, sometimes is seems like smokers are treated as a leperous sub-class (I'm not a smoker myself, just an observation).

Outdoors things are changing too - tax on tobacco is ever increasing, even if it's still relatively cheap in some European countries, and more people are conscious of the damage smoking does to their bodies. Additionally, a lot of smokers, especially in more affluent European countries, have switched to vaping.

> Honestly, sometimes is seems like smokers are treated as a leperous sub-class (I'm not a smoker myself, just an observation).

That's because these f are blowing stinking odours in everybody's faces and clothes. Yes, even outside. I strongly defend that my right to fresh air trumps their right to smoke and annoy a whole terrace.

It’s striking how many people smoke tobacco in Paris - the French average 1089 cigarettes per person per year, compared to 685 where I live. The US is 1016.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_cigaret...

What's up with Andorra and Luxembourg in the statistics? Neighbouring countries coming to buy lower-taxed cigarettes?

Yes. Andorra and Luxemburg are both tiny, landlocked nations that are pretty modest when it comes to taxation, bordering on what I'd call tax havens.

Coming from South America, I agree. I've had this exact conversation with friends from my home country, it definitely called our attention when each one of us moved to LA.

Anecdotal +1, but I found other States (Oregon, Colorado) slightly better in this regard.

Not so long ago, loudness was the stereotype of the English. Booming voices, conversations that felt shouted to their European neighbors, raucous laughter at their own jokes...

Yeah I'm pretty loud. Idk why, been more conscious of it and lowering the volume knob when heads start to turn.

Its not just California, the whole country is filled with these louds, just walk into any bar and you can find them.

Which bars in which countries aren't loud?