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Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by ubertaco on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @07:03AM (#17608327)
St. Simon's Island was a childhood vacation spot for me. I loved it. Having gone back just this year for the first time in over 20 years, I realized I like it even more now that I can enjoy the small-beach-town atmosphere and the deep-rooted history.

It's not Orlando, It's not Miami, it's not even Jacksonville. It's a tiny little spot with decent beaches, a long history that's reasonably-well-preserved, and quiet relaxation.

The marsh that's pictured in this article (labelled "boardwalk over marsh") looks like the Bloody Marsh [0], the site of the battle that was the "last straw" for the Spanish in their attempts to claim land further up from Florida (which used to extend a bit farther north than it does today).

The colony of Georgia was chartered by Britain around this area in part as a response to that "invasion", in an attempt to protect the important British port of Charleston up in Carolina (before the NC/SC split). Of course, the other key motivation was to have a whole bunch of land to use as an alternative to overcrowded debtor's prisons, so there's that.

This is in part why Savannah (another beautiful historic coastal spot in Georgia, though a much larger one) was so significant to the state for so much of its early history: it was the first planned city in the state, as evidenced by the fact that it's home to the oldest still-standing building in the entire state (a gardener's shed built in the early 1700s, now part of a tourist-trap restaurant).

All this to say: yes, Georgia definitely has a coast, and it's worth seeing (in this HNer's opinion), and worth preserving.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by thieving_magpie on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:11AM (#17608936)
Many people are probably familiar with St. Simon's from the 30th g8 summit, though they technically refer to it as Sea Island (more on that in a moment).

St Simon's has changed over the years. It's finally succumbing to development though they are being careful about it so as not to kill the golden goose (a very private feeling island). Most of the people that lived there prior to its rise in popularity have been driven out by high prices or cashed out if they were lucky enough to own land. The Eastern part of the island has become much more accessible to lower income populations. (edit: I've got this next sentence wrong as corrected in a comment below)Rich homeowners, as a result, erected a guarded gate in front of Sea Island (basically part of SSI) to keep everyone out.

I still love SSI. My only hope is that it doesn't continue on the path it's currently on. Privacy and exclusion are separate ideas. SSI can still be private, but it doesn't necessarily have to exclusive. My hope is that can change. However, my head tells me that everything I like about SSI is scarce and prices will only continue to climb, driving away those not fortunate enough to afford it.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by jcater on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:28AM (#17609056)
I live on St Simons.

You're conflating two islands here -- Sea Island is a separate island that has been privately owned since at least the 1920s. You have to drive across St Simons to get to Sea Island. For sure, Sea Island is a high end, gated resort community of a few hundred people.

St Simons is home to about 12k people. It has been an expensive place to live since at least the 80s. I, too, share your concerns about the current development going on -- I'm not sure the developers are in fact being careful about killing the golden goose. Developers are cutting down our historic oak trees and indiscriminately putting up cheaply built condos as fast as the corrupt planning commission will let them.

This is the perfect opportunity to plug the St Simons Land Trust: https://www.sslt.org/

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by atourgates on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @12:54PM (#17610744)
It's a great opportunity to plug all local land trusts.

Unlike national conservation organizations (which are great and have their place), local land trusts can really take on the priorities of the local area.

For example, the land trust I'm involved with here in the Inland Northwest does a lot of work to make sure that land used for agriculture and forestry is preserved for those uses, doesn't turn into housing developments and can even be passed down from generation-to-generation of family farmers without a prohibitive tax burden.

In Montana where there's been tons issues over access to public lands blocked by private landowners, they're playing a key role in preserving that access.

The Land Trust Alliance is a great place to find your local land trust: https://www.findalandtrust.org/

I expect you'll be surprised at the amount of "good for your community" work they're doing.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by fhood on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:35AM (#17609551)
Feels inevitable though. As soon as some developer gets it in their head that they have found the next retirement community, hundreds of condos spring up overnight.

What's worse is when things don't pan out, and you are left with hundreds of half finished condos.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by thieving_magpie on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:59AM (#17609256)
I worried that the oral history I'd always gotten about Sea Island was off. I should have checked into that. Are my memories of riding bikes to it as a kid off base?

You're right developers are destroying trees. I guess what I was alluding to was the historical restrictions on building sizes and things like that.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by robbrown451 on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @12:20PM (#17610422)
If you look at it on a map, it's pretty ambiguous where to draw the lines to make islands. I think in a geographical sense, Sea Island could very well be considered part of St Simons.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by adrr on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @12:47PM (#17610665)
This same attitude is why SF has a housing crisis.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by washadjeffmad on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @01:39PM (#17611150)
Because currently profitable industries have consolidated themselves within a few nearby localities, leading to a population explosion that may not be sustainable should those industries not 'continue on an ever-upwards growth trajectory'?

Perhaps what's happening in the bay is the result of responsible, long sighted policies designed to mitigate or forestall a population collapse during a proverbial gold rush in what could become a future Rust Belt.

I'm curious to hear your views. Where should we meet to talk about it? Galveston, Atlantic City, Detroit, Buffalo, New Orleans...?

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by TheBeardKing on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @01:51PM (#17611253)
What you're neglecting in your argument is the weather of central coastal CA. Not only is it far more temperate, it also lacks the constant threat of hurricanes or blizzards. Small earthquake chance, but nothing serious so far. There's a reason the deep south is so cheap - no one wants to summer in our heat and humidity! And very few people enjoy surviving the winters of Detroit.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by TimTheTinker on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @05:05PM (#17612801)
> Small earthquake chance, but nothing serious so far

You're forgetting the great quake of 1906 which destroyed nearly 80% of San Francisco, and the continuing threat of the San Andreas fault.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by MrDam on Thursday July 26, 2018 @06:08AM (#17616282)
You forgot Asian Tiger mosquitoes. Think you're safe busting your ass doing yard work at noon on a sweltering day? Think again!
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by adrr on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @05:23PM (#17612959)
Cities expand, there's no such thing as non-sustainable growth for a city. Cities can easily go vertical. If cities didn't expand during our parents and grandparents generation they'd just be the farms. It would be quite different landscape if the NIMBY group had clout back then.

Society moves forwards, people who want to "preserve" really don't want us to move forward. Whether they are killing mass transit plans because they want to "preserve" their small city culture or not allowing the building of high-density housing to meet the demands to our ever growing population.

Preserve is even more sinister as it uses justify racism and oppression or south likes to refer to as "preserving their southern culture" as they fly confederate flags and put up statues of Confederate leaders.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by TheBeardKing on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:20AM (#17609008)
The same thing happend to Hilton Head Island, SC. Most of the south end has become a gated community. Hunting Island, SC as well - Fripp Island is a gated community.

My biggest hope is that Cumberland Island, GA can avoid this fate. It has no bridge to it, and most of it is preserved as wilderness area, but the county seems to be trying its hardest to develop what private land remains on the island. It's a real shame, because it's one of the last wild, preserved islands anyone can get to by booking a ferry with the park service.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by mieseratte on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:46AM (#17609161)
> The same thing happend to Hilton Head Island, SC. Most of the south end has become a gated community.

Hilton Head native here, I don't think the HHI history is quite the same. Prior to Fraser kicking off the island as we know it in the '50s, it was basically just a handful of Freedmen farmers, Gullah natives and a rather large hunting reserve for the rich. Also, while some of the gated communities don't allow the riff-raff in, unless you decide to bike or make a restaurant reservation, some still do, most notably Sea Pines.

Also, the Town of is rather cognizant of their place as a very natural, family-friendly island and goes to great pains to preserve land[0] and limit what and how folks build[1][2] to preserve the nature of the island.

I think Kiawah or Seabrook up the coast make for a more apt comparison.

> Hunting Island, SC as well - Fripp Island is a gated community.

Wait, Hunting Island and Fripp Island are discrete, separate islands with Hunting Island being a State Park. What's the problem with Hunting Island?

[0] - https://www.hiltonheadislandsc.gov/council/landacquisition.c...

[1] - https://www.islandpacket.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/david...

[2] - https://www.islandpacket.com/news/business/article33627555.h...

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by TheBeardKing on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @01:36PM (#17611124)
Fripp Island was inline with discussion on the privatization of beaches. The only bridge to get to Fripp Island is through Hunting Island, and they don't let non-residents through. Sea Pines is a little more lax since it's not as elite as Sea Island - they don't check the credentials of cyclists, and it's the only way I've visted.

I'm not sure how much of the beach is considered public in east coast states, I know CA has laws against full privatization. But by gating the only road access, you've effectively privatized the beach unless you kayak there or something.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by mieseratte on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @02:34PM (#17611643)
> they don't check the credentials of cyclists, and it's the only way I've visted.

They sell tourist passes for $6 (Used to be $5... damn inflation).

> I'm not sure how much of the beach is considered public in east coast states

In the state of SC, there is no such thing as a private beach. Of course if the island is fully gated, it would require boat access.

In the case of Fripp, there is no public parking insofar as I'm aware but one could park at the edge of Hunting Island, walk across the bridge, then access the beach as the gates are inset.

Of course I'm also sure the security folks would try and make you feel unwelcome. One of those "can't beat the ride, can beat the rap" situations.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by watersb on Thursday July 26, 2018 @01:41AM (#17615291)
Cumberland Island — one of my favorite places on the planet — is a National Park, I believe.

Ironically, it was a gated community before that was cool, but had to be evacuated during World War II because of German U-Boat threat.

So now anyone can visit. As long as the ferry is running.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by teddyc on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @11:13AM (#17609879)
Cumberland Island is an awesome place to camp. I have some very fond memories of it.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by cpursley on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @11:22AM (#17609955)
Yes! It's a great place to get away from civilization for a bit and camp with family or friends:

https://www.nps.gov/cuis/planyourvisit/camping.htm

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by TheBeardKing on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @01:44PM (#17611195)
But if you have a lot of money you don't have to bother with the bugs and the riff-raff at the campground, you can overnight in a B&B[1]! Make sure you bring your dinner jacket though. They even provide a private ferry from Fernandina Beach, FL, so no risk of accidentally touching any smelly campers. [1]http://greyfieldinn.com
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by jmckib on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @06:46PM (#17613611)
I'm camping there next week! Anything I should make sure to see? I have heard there are wild horses but I'm not sure where to look for them.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by gebeeson on Thursday July 26, 2018 @09:32AM (#17617300)
The horses roam all over the place - I can nearly guarantee you that you won't miss them. They are everywhere! As to where to go and what to see - choose one of the trails that hits the beach. Lots to see!
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by brightball on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @04:25PM (#17612479)
> Most of the people that lived there prior to its rise in popularity have been driven out by high prices or cashed out if they were lucky enough to own land.

This is happening all over the South Carolina coast as well.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by mieseratte on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @08:15AM (#17608646)
> This is in part why Savannah (another beautiful historic coastal spot in Georgia, though a much larger one) was so significant to the state for so much of its early history: it was the first planned city in the state

Having spent many a weekend in Savannah from youth through to being an adult, and now having lived in Charleston for the better part of a decade, I really think Savannah is a nicer city.

Perhaps because Savannah was planned or because Charleston is constrained by its peninsular nature, but Savannah always felt like a small city whereas Charleston really just seems like a haphazard, overgrown town.

If any of y'all reading ever consider a trip down to Savannah, it's well worth a long weekend at the very least.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by phillywalsh on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @07:24PM (#17613831)
I also live in Charleston and go to Savannah a couple weekends a year because it really is a cool place. But when it comes to living in a place I would far prefer to live in Charleston. The actual grid plan of Savannah's historic district is superior to Charleston's street plan and I don't think Savannah ever had a building height limit so the taller buildings make Savannah feel more 'urban', but when it comes to jobs and all around momentum Savannah has very little; If there was more going on there it'd probably be the better place between the two. I get why the thought of a tourism would turn people off from living in a place, but in reality, nowadays the same thing that attracts people to visit cities are the same things that attract people to live in a certain city, just look at how Airbnb more less turned every city into a tourist destination.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by subpixel on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:14AM (#17608968)
I grew up in Charleston, an experience that makes me, as an adult, uninterested/incapable of living in another tourist destination, ever.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:30AM (#17609071)
> an experience that makes me, as an adult, uninterested/incapable of living in another tourist destination, ever.

I also grew up in a tourist destination. There's a reason it's a vacation destination and not somewhere people with a brain actually want to live year round. I could rant for hours about all the things that are terrible about it. I think it suffices to say that when ripping people off for a few months of the year is a large fraction of the local economy it that has a bunch of negative trickle down effects.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by mieseratte on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:58AM (#17609246)
Personally, I believe it really depends on the nature of the city / town.

I grew up ~60 miles down the coast from Charleston, on Hilton Head Island. Totally different vibe, beautiful, natural island. The Town of actually made real efforts to manage development and prevent developers from doing the normal land-grab over-development.

I've lived in Charleston for 7+ years and, despite a temporary moratorium, the City of is letting developers raze the city to build more and more hotels with no damned parking. Very little is done to manage or plan development. It's a whole different vibe, and I'm actually going to be leaving Charleston with no intent to return here in the coming months.

My experience in Charleston has really made me appreciate the island I grew up on. Not all tourist towns are built alike.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by brightball on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @04:36PM (#17612574)
I did 2 summers in Bluffton and spent a lot of time in HHI when I was in college around 2000. I definitely did not get the vibe you did from HHI.

If you visit, your first impression is that it is very pretty and quiet. When you're there for a more extended period, everything feels very...sterile. Everything looks the same. You can't find anything.

It's also this odd place in South Carolina where if you order tea it's unsweet and if you ask for sweet tea they'll either look at you strangely, give you sugar packets (not the same thing) or say they don't serve it. During the summer, all you see is Ohio license plates.

When I thought I was going to end up working there after college I was going to live in Beaufort just to avoid living there. Grew up in Florence.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:32AM (#17609524)
That's exactly the kind of town I grew up in (albeit at a more northern latitude). The veneer of quaintness that draws people to the town is very thin, just enough to get them to open their wallets. Beneath that it's all dysfunction and scum liberally sprinkled with less than ethical business practices and corrupt politics that everone's managed convince themselves is normal or doesn't exist.

I've lived in a variety of other small towns and a few cities. The pattern I've noticed is that when a large chunk of the community makes it's living by siphoning a few bucks off of people who don't live there permanently and have no plans to (tourists, university students, commuters) it creates a bunch of incentives for highly (more so than in a normal town/city) selfish behavior from all the local parties (business owners, politicians, town departments, individual property owners, etc) that basically boils down to everyone trying to squeeze every cent out of everyone else and nobody wants to live in a place where everyone is doing that because it sucks. I'm definitely in the "individuals are generally good and trustworthy when left to do their own thing" camp but a couple of the places I'v lived make me well aware of why some people believe that people are untrustworthy by default and need to be controlled.

In the case of tourist towns, the special snowflake image projected on top of all of this is just kind of a slap in the face for everyone living there. You've got your annual town parade for whatever and half the crowd is frowning because they know the backstory to everything they see in front of them. The local business that sponsored the float for a sports team is just doing it because a local offical's kid is on the team and he needs said official to not look too hard at his business. The fire department's 100ft ladder truck is just a waste because there's no more than a 3-story building in the town but the EMTs did a favor for the school superintendent who crashed his car while drunk (legend is that he had to be cut out by the FD and the EMTs recognized him and whisked him away before the cops could make him blow) so he called his friends and put in a good word for the fire department when it came to budget. The reason some of the town officials in the parade aren't behind bars is because the police know that scandals are bad for business and they'd rather just have it to hold over them anyway. The only reason the landscaping material company has money to blow on the nearly new trucks that are towing the floats (dirt moving is a low margin industry so you don't usually see that stuff) is because they have a local monopoly and overcharge everyone they deal with. It's just terrible to live in a place where everything is scummy but presented as quaint in order to fleece the tourists for a few months of the year and that's how most tourist towns become. No wonder everyone does drugs all winter. It wears on you. I suppose if you just take it all for granted or are just so overwhelmed by the quaintness that you don't notice it might be ok but that's just not me.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by mieseratte on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:49AM (#17609681)
The cops sweeping crime under the rug was definitely a thing growing up where I did, and the local paper was complicit as well.

I think one of the real differences between a strictly-tourist town and the island I grew up on was that it also served as an upscale retirement destination for Snowbird types such that it has its own thriving economy and year-round population (in the 30,000 - 40,000 range) so it wasn't strictly dependent on tourism.

The surrounding area has also grown and developed into its own area since. Rather interesting to watch the sort-of bootstrapping of the surrounding sleepy town into a thriving area over the years.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by pnathan on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @02:45PM (#17611726)
In a tourist trap place I used to live, all the crime was committed by hispanics. Non-hispanic names barely made it onto the newspaper's crime blotter. This started getting really weird after a while, once you realized most of the local population was not, in fact, hispanic.

very glad I left, never have regretted it.

Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by FLUX-YOU on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @08:59AM (#17608865)
I hated the smell after heavy rain though. Made it really difficult to do anything outdoors.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by anonu on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:06AM (#17608913)
Smells of what exactly?
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by FLUX-YOU on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @10:14AM (#17609368)
It's a swampy/sewage type of smell but not as potent.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by TheBeardKing on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @09:30AM (#17609074)
Sulfur most likely.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by lousyd on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @12:22PM (#17610437)
It looks to be more of an "island" than an island. I mean, the piece of water barely separating it from the rest of Georgia is called a "creek", for pete's sake.
Re:Georgia Has a Coast? by jcater on Wednesday July 25, 2018 @12:48PM (#17610671)
And three miles of saltwater marsh.

No, it’s not an island in the middle of the Atlantic, but it is one of the eight barrier islands of Georgia.