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Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:14PM (#17570802)
It might be a good car, but not at that price tag.

If I had to spend 50+k$ for a car, I would definitely not go for a Tesla Model 3. I would go with a reliable BMW/Mercedes/Audi that is way more luxurious and offer more functionalities for the same price.

So far, the Tesla Model 3 is still for people that want to make a statement that they are part of the "green revolution" or for Elon Musk fans.

Even at 35k$ (before taxes), it is still pretty expensive for a car that will be very very basic. Look what you can get for that price tag with other car manufacturers.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by mdeeks on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:47PM (#17571014)
I just bought an 2018 Audi A4 ($47k) and my wife just bought a Model 3 ($54k). I previously owned an S4 which (roughly $56k). I also test drove a few 4-series BMWs and few random Mercedes in the same price range.

TL;DR: I would take the Model 3 any day at that price. I have buyers remorse.

Drive feel:

The Model 3 is an absolute joy to drive and I would take it any day over either of my Audis and over any of the BMWs or Mercedes. Every gas car feels laggy now and they are kind of ruined for me. I drive my wife's car at every opportunity now even though I have a 3 week old Audi in my garage.

Autopilot makes gridlock traffic no longer a big deal. This is pretty huge and I hated driving my Audi long distance to Tahoe over July 4th weekend in traffic. I do NOT trust it with anything beyond gridlock traffic though. Not even for merges.

Interior:

The Model 3 seats are super comfy but the whole interior feels budget and I really hope you like minimalism because its extremely minimal and borderline cheap. BMW/Audi/Mercedes: I hope you like BUTTONS EVERYWHERE FOR EVERYTHING (I certainly don't). The interior feels much more premium than the Model 3 though.

Side note: Why does a tachometer still exist as a massive dial taking up most of your dash? I doubt 98% of people ever look at it.

The interface:

While significantly improved from my 2015 S4, the A4 UI is still an atrocity. Bluetooth is still awful and it auto plays whatever the hell happened to be running on my iPhone last. Lack of a touch screen (except BMW) is surprisingly frustrating now that I've used one.

The central display in the Model 3 is incredible and I love almost everything about it. Who needs bluetooth when you have Google Maps and high quality streaming audio over an incredible sounding sound system? I rarely even WANT to connect my phone.

Random:

The keyless unlock for the Model 3 is amazing as long as it actually works with your phone. My wife's Pixel XL works about 50% of the time and it makes it infuriating. PLEASE GIVE US A KEYFOB, TESLA

I can turn on the AC remotely on a hot day! The Model 3 is cold by the time we get in! There are so many delights with this car and that goes a long way.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by gamblor956 on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:28PM (#17571257)
BMW/Audi/Mercedes: I hope you like BUTTONS EVERYWHERE FOR EVERYTHING

That sounds awesome! It means I can do something without having to look away from the road. I don't have to actively context-switch whatever I'm thinking about to navigate on a touch panel. Whatever these guys are doing, it sounds so much better than dealing with glare and non-responsivity issues.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by mdeeks on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:39PM (#17571318)
The context switch isn't bad (admittedly it is more). The touch panel has almost everything you would want to do commonly in only two taps.

Navigation:

The cognitive load is very high on both vehicles. Using dials and buttons on my Audi is really hard and the maps are loaded with random icons and its a bit harder to parse where I'm supposed to turn next.

The voice directions work really well on the Model 3 since I assume it just pipes it to Google Maps. My Audi is terrible unless it is "home" or something obvious it wont misunderstand.

AC/Heat:

I have to look down for both cars. In my Audi, the physical buttons for the fan have digital displays for the speed and temp. So I have to look and read anyway.

Music:

There are next/previous and volume buttons on the wheel in the Model 3. No different than my Audi. Tapping the giant screen is definitely easier than tapping on my tiny iPhone screen like I currently do in my Audi.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:01PM (#17571106)
Thanks for your report! Looks like I might be overvaluing the fun factor of an Audi S4 compared to a Model 3.

I'm also wondering if the feel of an electrical engine is a personal thing? I have heard from one of my friend owning a Motel 3 that they are not a huge fan of the Electrical feel compared to a Manual gas car.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by mdeeks on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:13PM (#17571178)
I definitely miss the sound of the engine. It is incredibly satisfying. But the feeling of instantly being thrown back into your seat and have buttery smooth acceleration the whole way (no gear shifting) feels amazing.

My S4 was definitely fast and I had a great time driving it, but the feel of the Model 3 is much more satisfying. It feels like a missile. Everyone who we have let drive it or let sit in it has been shocked.

I'm sure there is a personal preference (my coworker will never give up a gas engine) but I think the majority who drive it and slam on the accelerator will probably agree.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:18PM (#17571201)
The issue is also that most of the automatic gearboxes on gas cars are garbage and are responsible for that lagging feeling when you want to accelerate.

If you drive a fully manual car, you are already way closer to a real acceleration.

That being said a smooth acceleration without the downtime needed for a gear shift must be quite an experience. I need to try that.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by davidgould on Friday July 20, 2018 @02:04AM (#17572842)
I have always driven manual cars for that reason. But when we got a Spark EV (the least possible electric car) my wife and I had to argue about who got to drive it. Even a crisp shifting manual with a lively engine feels sluggish and unresponsive compared to electric drive. It's like using an old budget phone with a resistive touch screen compared to using an iPad. Both sort of do the same thing, but one makes you happy and one makes you sad.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by mdeeks on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:26PM (#17571248)
If you're the kind of person who drives a manual by choice I have a feeling you won't be sold on it. If you're a lover of traditional cars and their feel, then it'll be a culture shock.

The Model 3 doesn't have to be everything to everybody though! (Just to most people if they want to succeed)

Give it a shot though, you may be surprised. Hopefully you can actually find one to test drive.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by jeffffff on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:39PM (#17571315)
have you driven any recent bmw with an automatic? the zf 8 transmissions are really nice and faster than the manual versions. dct equipped cars have also been faster than the manual versions for years. the only reason to drive a manual anymore is because you like shifting.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by dragontamer on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:43PM (#17571335)
DCT Ford Focus was utter garbage for years. The only people who like that car (ie: me) are the people who got the manual version.

It probably was the poor low-end torque of their Ecoboost engine. Even in manual, I have to rev the engine high to keep 1st gear responsive. But the DCT gearbox doesn't allow that kind of slippage, its too quick for that.

There are definitely warts in DCT, at least in Ford's implementation. I like the idea of an automatic dry clutch, so hopefully Ford improves it. But alas, Ford has stopped selling sedans in the USA so I guess it doesn't matter.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by smogcutter on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:23PM (#17571228)
> The keyless unlock for the Model 3 is amazing as long as it actually works with your phone. My wife's Pixel XL works about 50% of the time and it makes it infuriating. PLEASE GIVE US A KEYFOB, TESLA

Wait, really? If your phone is broken or out of batteries, are you locked out of the car?

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by mdeeks on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:28PM (#17571259)
No, it comes with two credit card "keys" that you keep in your wallet. They are RFID and you brush them next to the door or center console to unlock and start. Think of them like traditional manual keys.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by smogcutter on Thursday July 19, 2018 @10:01PM (#17571899)
Ah, gotcha. That makes a lot more sense.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by TrainedMonkey on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:26PM (#17571251)
You also get 2 RFID cards that can open/start the car.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by senatorobama on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:32PM (#17571285)
How do you afford that?
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by mdeeks on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:43PM (#17571330)
I'm in my late 30s, worked in the tech industry since 1998, have no student debt (I didn't go to college), and married into a home :)
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by senatorobama on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:50PM (#17571370)
Lucky...
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by BrazeBeefNoodle on Thursday July 19, 2018 @08:24PM (#17571508)
>> So far, the Tesla Model 3 is still for people that want to make a statement that they are part of the "green revolution" or for Elon Musk fans.

Not true. Save for long-haul drives (> 250-300 mile trips), the daily experience of driving a Tesla is objectively superior in every way to every gas car I've driven. It has nothing to do with image or idol worship and everything to do with the daily experience of driving it.

I also prefer it for long-haul drives, but I have a 4-year-old and taking a 25 minute break every 3 hours works well for us. If you're purely in a hurry, a gas car will refuel much faster (but if I'm in a hurry, I'm flying, not long-haul driving).

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by anothergoogler on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:24PM (#17570871)
> reliable BMW

That's a tall order.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ericd on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:22PM (#17570859)
Depends on what you value. I value fun driving over nice finishes, so I'd pick the Model 3.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:31PM (#17570913)
But is it though ? for 50+k$ I can think of a couple cars that I think are way more fun to drive than a middle class Model 3. (we are not talking Model S here)

For example an Audi S4/S5, or for a bit cheaper, a fully jacked up VW Golf R.

The whole value of the model 3, is the brand name and what it projects I think.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ericd on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:33PM (#17570929)
Have you ever driven a Tesla? It's really not comparable to any ICE car below hybrid supercar level. Having no perceptible throttle lag plus crazy torque really puts it in a class of its own in terms of fun. It has nothing to do with brand name.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:44PM (#17570999)
I was a passenger to a Tesla (Both model S and 3) and drove an Audi S4/S5 and a Golf R.

While I agree that the "feel" is different between gas and electric, I think you are overestimating what the Model 3 can do.

To come back to my examples, Any of the Audi S4/S5 [1] or Golf R will get 0-60 faster than all the Tesla Model 3, except the performance one [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_S4

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3#Specifications

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by codeulike on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:48PM (#17571025)
So you haven't driven one.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:10PM (#17571159)
Indeed. Does that mean that I cannot compare specification numbers?
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by extrapickles on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:31PM (#17571280)
You can, though the typical specification numbers do not cover what the Model 3 is good at for me.

I own a Model 3, and the perceptually instant throttle response and the lack of gear changes is what makes it 'funner' than the competitors for me to drive.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by r00fus on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:45PM (#17571346)
We're talking about how it feels to drive one so no.

Come back when you've taken a test drive. They're free.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by greglindahl on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:51PM (#17571038)
Don't both the Audi and the Golf make a loud, embarrassing noise while doing it? I call it the "Look at me, I'm an asshole!" sound. For many people, that sound plays a significant role in the driving experience. Some like it, some don't.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by gamblor956 on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:30PM (#17571270)
I've driven a Tesla Model 3, Volt, and Bolt. I prefer the latter two. Not as aggressive with the acceleration as the Tesla, but still quite zippy compared to ICEs. Moreover, the internal furnishings on the Chevys (and even in the Nissan Leaf) are so much more comfortable it's embarrassing (to Tesla) that its flagship mass model car being outperformed by cars several tens of thousands of dollars cheaper.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by greglindahl on Thursday July 19, 2018 @08:06PM (#17571444)
So you bought a Bolt, right? It's selling about 1/6 as many cars as the Model 3 in recent months.
Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by codeulike on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:35PM (#17570940)
The whole value of the model 3, is the brand name and what it projects I think.

You dont think the flood of critical acclaim counts for anything?

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by ironjunkie on Thursday July 19, 2018 @06:52PM (#17571044)
I have seen very positive critics and some negative ones.

I fully agree that it is a good car, the whole discussion here is about the price tag, and if it is worth it in comparison of what a traditional ICE car can offer.

I think it is debatable, and as it is very often the case in the car industry, it is a lot about what image you want to project as an owner of the car.

Furthermore journalists do not escape the brand name effect. A lot of the critics were already convinced Tesla fans.

Re:Test Drive of the Tesla Model 3 Performance by kilroy123 on Thursday July 19, 2018 @07:34PM (#17571290)
I disagree. If it was really $35k it would be an amazing buy.