News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by sandworm101 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:06AM (#17515332)
It also means laws/regulations to just plain ban harmful behaviors. Collectivization to alter market forces cannot fix everything. Some things need to just stop. Selling CFCs needs to stop. That won't happen by naming and shaming involved companies. It won't happen by people gathering on facebook to organize a boycott. It happens by people in uniforms enforcing the law, with violence when necessary. Sometimes that is the only way to stop individuals bent on illegally benefiting themselves at the expense of others.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by bilbo0s on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:31AM (#17515574)
"...Sometimes that is the only way to stop individuals bent on illegally benefiting themselves at the expense of others...."

Not just "sometimes", it takes the threat of violent people in uniforms ALL of the time when dealing with people bent on illegally benefiting themselves at the expense of others.

The issue is that the violent people in uniforms, (and even the people controlling them for that matter), can ALSO be bent on benefiting themselves at the expense of others.

It's not only grassroots organizations that can be corrupt, the government itself is actually even more likely to be corrupt. So you almost have to solve corruption before you try to solve the other structural issues. And corruption is just a very hard problem to solve.

Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by mhneu on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:24PM (#17516103)
Cory Doctorow has recently written an interesting piece on corruption: https://boingboing.net/2018/07/02/low-yield-crude.html

It talks about how socializing risk and privatizing profits is actually the definition of corruption.

Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by mhb on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:15AM (#17515430)
Well it takes collective action to decide what to ban.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by sandworm101 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:26AM (#17515534)
>> collective action to decide

No. Once upon a time we nominated experts to make most of those decisions. Groups like the EPA or the IRS were given a mandate to examine what was going on and ban behaviors that did harm. But today "regulation" is a bad word. Everything is political. The EPA and IRS cannot ban anything without massive public debate. In fact, most regulatory bodies are so under pressure to reduce any and all regulation that they rarely ever ban anything. Quick and efficient regulation of harmful behavior is dead.

Example: the recent bill to ban upskirting photography in the UK. Nothing much to debate. But the bill gets killed by the new breed of politicians who demand every new regulation be subject to the full public process in order to make the act of passing new regulations as difficult as possible.

Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by aalleavitch on Thursday July 12, 2018 @12:18PM (#17516042)
What we lack is trust. We lack security in each other, in many cases for entirely legitimate reasons. Reestablishing systems of trust is one of the challenges we’re facing right now.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by Nasrudith on Friday July 13, 2018 @09:03AM (#17522557)
Reminds me of the one common Freudian slip I notice in the wake of a scandal. If they talk of restoring trust as a goal they are so irredeemably corrupt they see only the bad PR as a problem and not the heinous abuses. Since trying to fix the problem doesn't even come to mind to them as something to lie about when they are in hot water!
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by s73v3r_ on Thursday July 12, 2018 @01:18PM (#17516685)
In general I probably agree with you. But I seriously can not comprehend how that applies to the example given in the parent post.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by smolder on Thursday July 12, 2018 @05:46PM (#17518901)
I'll take a stab. People don't trust their government or their justice system to fairly enforce the law or to draft a law that, all legalese deconstructed, is fair in the first place.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by bluGill on Thursday July 12, 2018 @02:43PM (#17517445)
On your example: are you sure there is nothing to debate? No possible harm? No possible unintended consequence?

One thing I've observed over and over is that there are unintended consequences to everything. It often takes years to figure them out.

Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by User23 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:30AM (#17515562)
Thank you for this lucid description of the authoritarian position.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by dang on Friday July 13, 2018 @01:28AM (#17520715)
Would you please not post ideological battle comments to HN? They're not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by fucking_tragedy on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:54AM (#17515792)
Viewing regulation as authoritarianism is an extremist position.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by Nursie on Thursday July 12, 2018 @11:50AM (#17515756)
In the case of individual or small group actions that have the capability to seriously fuck things up for everyone else, what other position is rational?
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by User23 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @07:47PM (#17519549)
Local control of communities and migration to an amenable community for your desires instead of trying to force your preferences on others with the barrel of a gun.
Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by Nursie on Friday July 13, 2018 @05:12AM (#17521515)
There is no such thing as 'local' when we are talking about CFC production.

Try again.

Re:People Aren’t Dumb, the World Is Hard by User23 on Thursday July 12, 2018 @07:45PM (#17519539)
Why was this flagged? Men using violence to enforce a preferred policy is exactly authoritarian. A simple factual description is in no way pejorative.