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Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by princeb on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @10:30AM (#17450466)
i sure wouldn't mind some vc-subsidized underground trains.

maybe if they became competitive rapid transit operators as well, the world could become a better place

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by giantsloth on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:25AM (#17450942)
This happened with trains in the 19th century and it was an absolute disaster. Please learn your history on privatized public goods. It results in massive fragmentation in standards, extreme levels of corruption and an overall worse experience for most people.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by karthikb on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @12:39PM (#17451612)
Suggest that you actually look at privately run transit infrastructure that exists today. Tokyo subway systems (JR, Tokyo Metro, Keisei) - all private. Or Hong Kong - MTR is private.

The real problem is putting operations and verification in the same hat - public or private. Private transit systems work well when government regulators have the power to set and enforce a strict SLA. They fail without oversight. Same with public systems. When the operational and regulatory agency are the same, it becomes hard to penalize failures.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by thinkpad20 on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @01:07PM (#17451882)
I think your point about operations and verification is spot on. However, it’s worth noting that Japan (less familiar with other countries) has tremendous cultural advantages over the US when it comes to privatizing infrastructure. Punctuality, cleanliness, attention to detail, engineering prowess, safety, collectivism — many things that lend themselves to a well-functioning transit system — are all deeply interwoven into Japanese history and culture in a way that is difficult to imagine being the case in America. Which isn’t to say that it couldn’t be successful here, but it’s not an equivalent set of circumstances.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by TylerE on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @01:02PM (#17451842)
Your definition of 'Private' is interesting.

Tokyo Metro is owned by... the national and local government.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by karthikb on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @01:24PM (#17452019)
Tokyo metro is one company of many that provide subway services in Tokyo. There’s also JR, Keisei, and several other companies. Some are fully private, some are joint ventures with the government - but key is that none of these companies have oversight power over themselves.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by inferiorhuman on Wednesday July 04, 2018 @03:40AM (#17455803)
In theory there is separate oversight over public transit in the United States as well. In California the CPUC regulates, for example, Muni and BART while the CHP has oversight over agencies that use state and federal highways (the subset of the Muni fleet that runs down Van Ness and 19th Ave is under the purview of the CHP). In practice the regulators are feckless.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by CaptainZapp on Wednesday July 04, 2018 @10:02AM (#17457305)
Not to nitpick. But JR is not really one company, even though you get the impression that it is, due to the homogenity of, for example signage, partially quite comparable rolling stock and a shared (extremely efficient) reservation system.

From Wikipedia: [1]

The Japan Railways Group, more commonly known as JR Group (JRグループ Jeiāru Gurūpu), consists of seven for-profit companies that took over most of the assets and operations of the government-owned Japanese National Railways on April 1, 1987. Most of the liability of the JNR was assumed by the JNR Settlement Corporation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Railways_Group

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by CaptainZapp on Wednesday July 04, 2018 @09:58AM (#17457284)
As a counter example look at privatisation of the UK rail system.

Granted, that not every experience is abyssimal, but in my experience most train riding experiences in the UK are pretty terrible.

Filthy trains with partially massive undercapacity at sky high prices. Delays, cancelled trains and you - the passenger - is just left out to dry.

Infrastructure is also problematic, like an underabundance of ticket machines, let alone ticket selling staff at stations, etc.

It's also interesting to note that Japan rail companies can keep prices reasonable by making major parts of their income via real estate.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by virmundi on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:28AM (#17450963)
We know about the downsides now. For example, the New York system was private and actually paid for itself. New York subsidized the system. Now it's inefficient, poorly maintained, and expensive due to excessive salaries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPhC3-9mSb4
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by inferiorhuman on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:43AM (#17451109)
> For example, the New York system was private and actually paid for itself.

Which New York system? The New York MTA is the result of consolidating multiple, unprofitable systems (e.g. LIRR, New Haven, Staten Island). Most were snatched out of the jaws of bankruptcy by the government as commuter service just isn't profitable much of the time. Let's not forget that the private rapid transit (BMT and IRT) didn't work out so well either (bankruptcy and poorly thought out contracts) and eventually was acquired by New York city.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by rayiner on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:57AM (#17451229)
The New York system was never really "private." The IRT and BMT were designed by the city, mostly built by the city, and were leased to the private operators. The IND was always municipally owned and operated. The city bought all of the systems in 1940, about 35 years after the first one was built.

That is not to say you can't have private systems that work (Tokyo, Hong Kong). New York just isn't a particularly good example.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by pyrophane on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @10:41AM (#17450565)
I'm sure it would be great until they captured the market then raised prices and started sharing your data with 3rd parties as an additional way to monetize.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by abhiminator on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:04AM (#17450779)
>started sharing your data with 3rd parties as an additional way to monetize.

Germany's national broadcaster Deutsche Welle produced an excellent documentary looking at the exact same scenario you described. [0]

It looked into the possibility of making short-haul transportation (focusing primarily on Hyperloop) virtually free with just one caveat: a precondition that users share all their private data that advertisers might find valuable -- free ride in exchange for ad-targetable data -- scary and intriguing at the same time.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER9vlfPSBa8

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by notarealaccount on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:25AM (#17450937)
Am I the only one who wouldn't mind a responsible way for people to target me with things I don't know about which I might be interested in?
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by bad_user on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @12:05PM (#17451297)
People often miss the point on why tracking is dangerous, the two comments below included.

The point isn't if the companies behave responsibly or not. Google for example has behaved responsibly with user data, exemplary in fact and I'm sure they'll continue to do so. Yet companies like Google are and will continue to be a danger for everything you know and love.

It's not how you use the data that's problematic, although companies like Facebook should suffer for their blunders, but rather that the data exists in the first place.

Are you part of a minority? Do you have some weird sexual preference or an affair? Are you a woman or gay? Are your religious views mainstream? Have you ever traveled to an Arab country or to Israel? All of these, in the right context, can put your life at risk. It's all an issue of place and timing.

You can also imagine more benign usage, like insurance companies raising their rates or banks calculating your credit score based on where you travel or your movie preferences. Heck, that's already happening.

Yes, many companies can behave responsibly. They can do so today, but what happens tomorrow, or how about in 10 years from now? What happens when those companies are being bought by bigger, less responsible ones. It happened before and it will keep happening ;-)

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by aalleavitch on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:31AM (#17450993)
Of course not, but the responsible part is what’s missing. Advertisers aren’t just showing you a product, they are trying to convince you to do what they want and they’re more than willing to exploit psychology and circumstances to get you to do it. Sometimes what they want you to do is good for you too, often it is not.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by 394549 on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:45AM (#17451127)
> Am I the only one who wouldn't mind a responsible way for people to target me with things I don't know about which I might be interested in?

Targeting is about maximizing profits for the advertisers, it's not about maximizing value to you. If they can use targeting to take value from you in order to give it to themselves, they will. For instance, you could be bombarded with targeted ads for product A when you'd really be happier with product B. You can contrive scenarios where ad targeting is a win-win, but those scenarios are misleading because they go against the underlying incentives.

I wouldn't mind a neutral, personalized product recommendation engine, but that's not what ad targeting is.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by zjaffee on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @12:01PM (#17451255)
I want to add that I've gotten Facebook ads to attend free events before that have had very positive impacts on my life which found me through targeted advertising. While yes you are right most of the time, targeting still can provide positive outcomes.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by michaelmrose on Wednesday July 04, 2018 @01:16PM (#17458342)
Information not vetted by the user is often pretty inaccurate even with the best of intentions. If the user is allowed to vet it obviously it wont contain anything bad about the user including info people may ultimately desire to have.

All the information collected in service of figuring out what to advertise to you will ultimately be used for all sorts of things many of which could be to your disadvantage.

In the end you wont even know why you were denied that car loan, that job, that place to live, why you weren't deemed credible by the cops or why you were sentenced to the maximum instead of offered probation. The oracle just told the car company, the employer, the landlord, the cops, and the prosecutor what to do at different junctures based decisions that not even the people running the computer can fully explain.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by drivingmenuts on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:25AM (#17450944)
Wouldn't that violate the provision of the GDPR where you still have to provide access, even if the end-user rejects the permissions?
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by guhidalg on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:00AM (#17450746)
At which point people would outrage and the government buys it out for political capital. Still sounds like a win win to me.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by filesystem on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:04AM (#17450783)
Sorry but when has this happened? Which government?
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by optimuspaul on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:25AM (#17450935)
Buys is the most suspect word in that. Seems more likely the kind of government that would do that is more the type to seize the company. I'm skeptical, like you, that this would end positively.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by lainga on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:37AM (#17451046)
There are things which have not happened which are yet possible.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by duxup on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @10:53AM (#17450665)
It would be nice except for the areas they suddenly choose not to serve.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by jimmaswell on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @12:23PM (#17451462)
Elon's Boring Company's working on something like that, too. I hope that venture succeeds.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by GW150914 on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @10:47AM (#17450619)
For a vision of how that plays out, see: United Kingdom. It doesn’t end well, not well at all.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by kennydude on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:16AM (#17450878)
It doesn't end well, they just don't turn up
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by billybolton on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @10:51AM (#17450652)
Tldr for the lazy?
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by GW150914 on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @10:57AM (#17450708)
From Wikipedia

The process was very controversial at the time, and still is, and its success is hotly debated – with the claimed benefits including a reduced cost to the taxpayer, lower fares, improved customer service, and more investment. Despite opposition from the Labour Party, who gained power in 1997 under Tony Blair, the process has never been reversed wholesale by any later government, and the system remains largely unaltered. A significant change came in 2001 with the collapse of Railtrack, which saw its assets passed to the state-owned Network Rail (NR), with track maintenance also brought in-house under NR in 2004. The regulatory structures have also subsequently changed.

The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/07/britains-rai...

Citylab

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2012/09/why-britains-...

Science Direct

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S015599821...

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by anon1385 on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @11:08AM (#17450817)
Even the Financial Times, notoriously partisan backers of privatisation and markets, struggles to make the case for rail privatisation these days (although they do try, bless them).

https://www.ft.com/content/d82848ca-f7ba-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1...

>There is a growing consensus among both executives and industry experts as well as the public that Britain’s unique attempt to create competition on Britain’s rail network has not delivered.

>While it has led to more services, and encouraged more users to pay higher prices, it has not unleashed the productivity improvement necessary both to upgrade the network and stabilise the network’s finances.

>Over the same period, for instance, London’s state-owned metro network, Transport for London, has grown just as quickly and delivered much more state-of-the-art investment.

Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by perfmode on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @10:39AM (#17450548)
my dream is to buy the NYC metro system and take drastic measures to revive it.
Re:Lyft and Uber Won’t Be Happy Until They’re Your One-Stop ... by peterwwillis on Tuesday July 03, 2018 @12:37PM (#17451597)
At this point, with a sufficient fortune, the simplest, most drastic thing would be to buy all new infrastructure, hire 10,000 workers, and install it all over a couple months. The current system includes just over 6,000 trains, on 36 lines, traveling through 472 stations, on 245 miles of route track (not counting the other 597 miles of track), though the upgrade only requires a small percentage of those. A total shutdown would interrupt over 135 Million rides per month.