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Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by rayiner on Thursday June 14, 2018 @10:40AM (#17312048)
That's about 10 million per year in debt payments for the full $140 million investment. If you assume that 50% of households subscribe, and the city subsidizes rates so no capital is recovered from folks below the poverty line, that's about $686/year per subscribing household. Which is crazy high--the non-subsidized ARPU will have to be $140 to break even. (Which is also not out of line--Verizon will barely break even on FiOS at $110 ARPU, and that deployment was cheaper and had no subsidy component.)
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by numbsafari on Thursday June 14, 2018 @10:49AM (#17312128)
$100/mo for FTTH vs. $69/mo for 250MB/s Comcast?

I'll take the FTTH and leave Comcast and Century Link behind, thank you very much.

Would be even better if the City charged you for the fiber link and then let you select your backend provider. E.g., the way consumer choice works in the electric space. Let the city run/own the cable, and let the back-end carriers compete to provide the backbone and value-added services. Give every house a basic connection that lets them interact with city and state services only, for free.

Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by rayiner on Thursday June 14, 2018 @12:25PM (#17312814)
Maybe you're willing to pay more. Most people probably aren't. (FiOS uptake rates are under 40% even though its always been much faster than competing cable services.) And the brutal economics of fiber really punish you for that. If your uptake rate goes from 50% to 33%, your per-subscriber costs have to go up to compensate (which puts even more downward pressure on your uptake rate).
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by numbsafari on Thursday June 14, 2018 @01:42PM (#17313593)
The average Comcast customer paid something like $150/mo in 2017.

Replace that with a $100/mo. FTTH plan, plus Netflix and you're still saving money. And many people have Netflix + Comcast already.

Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by panopticon on Thursday June 14, 2018 @02:37PM (#17314176)
I image that $150/mo average include cable and landline? I spent between $35-65/mo at my last 3 apartments (CA, KS, MO) for ~100-200mbps through Comcast for internet only.
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by paulie_a on Thursday June 14, 2018 @06:51PM (#17316095)
An extra 50 a month is definitely worth not ever dealing with Comcast support or their shitty network.
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by Retric on Thursday June 14, 2018 @12:29PM (#17312857)
FIOS includes TV. The real issue is Verizon is not that much better than cable companies.
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by rayiner on Thursday June 14, 2018 @12:57PM (#17313126)
I'm not sure I understand your first point? TV is a major part of the economics of fiber deployment. Chattanooga's fiber system also includes TV, so does Google Fiber. As to your second point--have you ever had FiOS? Verizon's wireline division is run like old-school AT&T--FiOS is very high quality.
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by Retric on Thursday June 14, 2018 @01:18PM (#17313312)
I have used FIOS for the last 5 years. For a while they where throttling Netflix just like the Cable companies, so better sure but they also wanted to kill net neutrality just like the cable companies.

As to TV, you spread the network costs over both internet AND cable TV and should include a portion of TV/equipment rental revenue when calculating payback periods. Cord cutters are significant, but many people still want cable TV channels and rent DVR's.

Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by rayiner on Thursday June 14, 2018 @02:15PM (#17313975)
I agree you need to include TV revenue--that's why I threw in Verizon's $110 ARPU (which includes TV), and suggested that Boulder's more expensive system would have to hit an even higher number like $140 (including TV).
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by rayiner on Thursday June 14, 2018 @10:52AM (#17312156)
> $100/mo for FTTH vs. $69/mo for 250MB/s Comcast? I'll take the FTTH and leave Comcast and Century Link behind, thank you very much.

It's $100/mo only if you hit 50% uptake rate. If your uptake rate is only, say, 33%, because most people don't care about gigabit and would rather save the $30/month, your per-household cost shoots up (as does what you have to charge to recover the investment).

Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by julienchastang on Thursday June 14, 2018 @10:54AM (#17312167)
So $200 million for the entire build out including debt costs? Your debt calculation assumes a Muni-bond rate of 4% which seems high to me. AAA muni bonds are more like 2.8%.
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by jartelt on Thursday June 14, 2018 @10:47AM (#17312109)
Comcast charges $160 a month for 1000 Mbps internet and $110 a month for 400 Mbps. The $100 per month you quote isn't terrible when compared to those numbers.
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by StillBored on Thursday June 14, 2018 @11:22AM (#17312359)
I wish people would also list the upload speeds, which for doing backups, sending grandma 4k video links of the kids, etc is miserable on the 20-40Mbit, that the cable companies are providing to go with most of their "gigabit" packages.

The idea that you need to use facebook's/etcs spyware just to share a couple photos with your friends goes against the entire premise of the internet's PtP architecture.

More generally, does a media companies ownership of the infrastructure create a conflict of interest when it comes to providing a symetric communications path so you can stream your kids video's instead of having to involve a 3rd party to "cache" them for you?

Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by lotsofpulp on Thursday June 14, 2018 @11:45AM (#17312502)
Unless Comcast is doing a fiber installation to your home, it's not comparable. They are probably just raising the caps they have on their existing conditions, but the neighborhood is still sharing the same amount of bandwidth. It's also not symmetrical up and down.
Re:Boulder moves to fund citywide fiber buildout through debt by paulie_a on Thursday June 14, 2018 @07:14PM (#17316198)
If I was an employee of Comcast, when someone asked what I did I would be so ashamed I would rather say "i am a prostitute that uses the money for drugs".