News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by Donzo on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:14PM (#17304437)
Real US Dollars have a very large arsenal with unimaginable destructive powers propping up their value.

The dollars may be fake but the man with the gun who is standing behind them is very real.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by grosjona on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:42PM (#17304709)
You're forgetting about the army of hackers who are propping up the value of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

Why own weapons when you can control the people who own them?

As our software systems get more complex and as we become more reliant on them, hackers become increasingly influential politically and economically.

Lawyers, doctors and financiers have had thousands of years to figure out how to gain unfair zero-sum leverage within capitalism, software engineers, on the other hand, didn't exist until recently but it's only a matter of time before they group together and get their leverage.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by mr_spothawk on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @02:08PM (#17305595)
> only a matter of time before they group together and get their leverage

it's already done. see, for instance: - the impact of digital campaign outreach in the 2008 election - various 3letter "cyber" groupos since early 2000s - anonymous circa 3 years ago - btc manipulation last year

there are probably more

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by spiorf on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:19PM (#17304491)
This is the internet, and those weapons can't fire down here. Try, instead, to delete a two week old transaction from the bitcoin blockchain. You will find that even with military-sized funding, you can't. That's what is backing up bitcoin's value
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by fatjokes on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:59PM (#17304898)
Heh, reminds me of the time Anonymous tried to fight the Mexican drug cartels, thinking "this is the internet, and those weapons can't fire down here."

The cartels found one poster in a local internet cafe. They did their cartel thing. I didn't hear any more about that fight.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by bena on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:23PM (#17305167)
Something everyone forgets. If you can reach something, that something can reach you.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by gus_massa on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:42PM (#17304723)
The ETH/ETC fork essentially reversed a month old transaction. It's not Bitcoin, but they still have a 1/2 marketcap. If the value comes from irreversibility, their marketcap should be almost 0. [Moreover, ETC is the irreversible chain and the value is 1/30 of the value of ETH.]
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by RexetBlell on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:49PM (#17305411)
First of all, both ETH and ETC are irreversible. If someone tried to reverse something on the ETH or ETC chain, there would be another fork and there would be 3 Ethereum chains.

Also, the ETH/ETC fork did not technically reverse anything. The fork allowed the inclusion of an "irregular" transaction that moved funds from the DAO account to a "Withdraw" account.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by gus_massa on Thursday June 14, 2018 @07:13AM (#17310774)
I know, but why I useful an immutable log if nobody looks at it?

They used a magic fork to create the irregular transaction. They could have removed the original transaction and use the magic to declare the intermediate has valid. (I've seen this "solution" in discussions about what to do if someone puts illegal content in the blockchain.)

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by hcknwscommenter on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:53PM (#17304841)
"Try, instead, to delete a two week old transaction from the bitcoin blockchain."

So that is literally true, but is it really true from a pragmatic sense? If the US government used their military might to destroy a significant portion of large mining installations, would bitcoin really be in any way resistant to that? If the NSA and DOE used their combined supercomputing power to outhash everyone else, couldn't they take over the bitcoin network and do whatever the heck they want with it?

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by mr_spothawk on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @02:03PM (#17305555)
the same is literally true for a nuclear-armed opponent and the dollar. piles of cash would still exist in bunkers and wallets around the world, and would retain some value.

a more interesting evaluative plot-element might be something like:

how many developers would need to die for bitcoin to be exterminated?

vs.

how many economists would need to die for the dollar to be exterminated?

frankly, if some gov wanted digital coins (or their supporting networks) destroyed... I think it would be easier than reducing a traditional, national currency to rubble.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by TeMPOraL on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:25PM (#17304561)
You do not live on the Internet, you live in physical reality. Very much in reach of the police. Or a cruise missile.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by ethbro on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:50PM (#17304809)
At USD$6.5B for a 51% attack (scraped off a website)...

... that's a smidge over 1% of the US military budget.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by spiorf on Thursday June 14, 2018 @04:05PM (#17314900)
51% lets you censor transactions. You need more than that to reverse a week old tx. Way more. You have to outrun the rest of the world and gain a week of advantage. So if you have 90% of the hashrate, you go 9 times faster than the honest miners. Every day, you can erase 9 days of blockchain. But that 90% means that you build a mining farm that is 9 times greater that the current hashrate. Redo the math on the costs and logistics of that.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by SilasX on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:10PM (#17305032)
Doesn't mean it's easy to get approval to spend that "smidge" on an attack.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by ethbro on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:21PM (#17305148)
"smidge over 1%"

It's not easy, but it's not impossible (to parent's bombastic assertion).

I believe the Manhattan project spent something like 0.55% of the US military budget (against ~2013USD$900b yearly budgets, which seemed the peak in 1942-45).

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/smidge

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by SilasX on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:25PM (#17305189)
Because it had hard-won political approval; a bitcoin attack would face similar barriers.

And I know what smidge means, I was expressing ire at your attempt to sound folksy.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by ethbro on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @03:05PM (#17306055)
Fwiw, I'm actually pretty folksy.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by Retric on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:32PM (#17304614)
I can't exactly delete a physical transaction with real money, so that provides zero new benefit.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by grosjona on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:56PM (#17304862)
The Fed can inflate away the value of those transactions anytime they want and not only do you have zero control over this process, it is not even possible to predict it.

The complexity of the financial instruments used by the Fed is intentional and serves to obscure the fact that they are essentially giving free money to large banks and corporations.

Corporations are not getting bigger because they're more efficient at delivering value to consumers - They're getting bigger because the Fed makes sure of it.

The Fed is like a river; those who are closest to the source can get the most out of it. In this case it means bankers, financiers and corporations. Regular workers are far downstream, they get whatever is left.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by the_gastropod on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:12PM (#17305051)
> The Fed can inflate away the value of those transactions anytime they want and not only do you have zero control over this process, it is not even possible to predict it.

Be real. Between USD and BTC, one has lost 70% of its value over the past ~7 months.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by sincerely on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @05:16PM (#17307011)
You're not wrong but you're also choosing a specific time frame that makes your point sound stronger than it might necessarily be. I could do something similar:

>BTC is worth the same as it was in November 2017

>Between USD and BTC, one has increased ~150% in value over the last year

>Between USD and BTC, only one is worth ten times as much now as it was worth two years ago

At the end of the day I am pretty sure I agree with the point you're trying to make (USD is a lot more stable/predictable/reliable than BTC even taking into consideration inflation) but you shouldn't use arguments that someone who disagrees with you could easily attack.

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by isostatic on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:11PM (#17305039)
Which is why the US dollar is always falling compared to other currencies?

Deflating currencies are terrible things for economies

Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by grosjona on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:24PM (#17305181)
People can create new cryptocurrencies to increase the total cryptocurrency money supply.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by joejerryronnie on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @02:50PM (#17305944)
If the world's financial stability is at risk due to crypto-currency, you will see how easy it is for the government to effectively shut down the internet. What good is the bitcoin blockchain when all ISPs have been locked down and the only internet traffic is going directly through military run equipment?
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by spiorf on Thursday June 14, 2018 @04:14PM (#17314964)
It would be an economic suicide for the first country that decides to disconnect itself from the internet. Or do you think that for the first time in history of mankind, every single government will come together against bitcoin? Besides, there are satellites beaming down bitcoin transactions, so...
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by joejerryronnie on Friday June 15, 2018 @03:10AM (#17318021)
I'm talking about the scenario where cryptocurrency is already threatening to destabilize the world financial system. And it's trivial for the world's governments to shut down all the satellites that might transmit bitcoin transactions. Now if a small group of people could figure out how to launch swarms of rogue satellites quicker than the gov could shut them down, that could be a way to keep crypto going.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by Donzo on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @01:01PM (#17304919)
Why are you interpreting my comment as somehow anti-btc? Everything isn't binary.
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by sethrin on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:31PM (#17304610)
Why is that valuable?
Re:Bitcoin’s Price Was Artificially Inflated Last Year, Rese... by NicoJuicy on Wednesday June 13, 2018 @12:47PM (#17304771)
But centralisation makes it safer, all quirks aside