He's probably alluding to the fact that these apps are installed by default (which needn't be the case because MAS).

I had the same thought. I really like Numbers, I stoped using Evernote because it was bloated (I am using the simpler stock mac notes). I use Calendar, Reminders, Preview and Safari. Quick look is not an app, but is a great mac feature that you don't find elsewhere.

I think that the stock apple software is really good. It is simple without lacking usability. It is something that you can really use and, if you need something better or more customizable, you can get third party apps.

I feel like bloatware is something that is very bad and not usable.

The fact I can't uninstall certain non-critical applications like iTunes certainly makes it feel like bloatware.

You can, there are a ton of instructions on the internet showing how. Not sure why you would bother though, disk space is cheap.

> disk space is cheap

Not from Apple it isn't.

* Adding 128 GB to a MPB = $200

* 512GB SSD on NewEgg = $100.

On my machine iTunes is 200MB, so about 30 cents worth.

My belief is that being able to not see stuff like that gives a much stronger sense of ownership of the device. It also removes you from an endless treadmill of software updates to something you don't use (some of which may even force you to restart your machine). Following someone's guide to perform hacks to remove something that the OS vendor clearly expects to always be there is both a hassle and likely to cause unforseen consequences in the future, so I don't really agree that the desire is actually solved by the existence of these guides.

It's only rich if you only use apple devices... none of the software works on non-apple devices. For those of us who use non-apple devices, nearly all of that software is bloat.

Apple could easily fix this by releasing their software for other platforms, or web-enabling them... but they don't...

So... bloat.

Mail, Calendar, Keynote, Contacts, Photos, Notes, Reminders, Pages, and Numbers are web enabled. Go to iCloud.com. You can legit edit and collaborate in Keynote/Pages/Numbers on the web, and in some ways is superior to G suite apps (especially Google Slides).

If the web app is good enough, then the desktop versions shouldn't exist and thus shouldn't be installed. They end up being "bloat" either way.

Ah so you are an electron fan eh? Web apps "good enough" eliminate desktop apps? <eyeroll>

My point is that if Apple's webapps are good enough to serve as the only interface to e.g. your documents on other platforms, they should also be good enough for MacOS. I don't personally believe that they are good enough for that but you can't have it both ways: Either Apple doesn't support other platforms well enough for their ecosystem to be a good choice for a multi-platform user or else their web apps are good enough that they don't need corresponding desktop apps.

To directly address your question, though, I am a fan of so-called progressive webapps and very much not a fan of electron.

If you use non-Apple devices then there is no bloat since you do not have these apps.

My company was recently acquired and we switched from GSuite to Microsoft exchange. Using the native mac apps (email, calendar) instead of Microsoft's clients was nice and i probably wouldn't have done it if they weren't installed.

I mean if OP wants an OS without "bloatware" according to his definition, Arch is really the best option (which was his conclusion).

Not only that, but unlike the crapware installed on Windows/Android, you can simply trash those apps and they take up no space on your system. 99% of users probably find the majority of those apps really helpful.

An evernote user complaining about bloatware is pretty funny.

Author here. I've been looking to switch off Evernote but haven't found a suitable replacement yet.

Apple notes is quite good. I replaced Evernote with it years ago and never looked back.

Google Keep is alright