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Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by brown on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:03AM (#17266109)
Gene Roddenberry was asked by a reporter about casting Patrick Stewart in Star Trek: TNG. "Surely by the 24th century, they would have found a cure for male pattern baldness." And Gene Roddenberry responded "No, by the 24th century, no one will care."
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by jvozza on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:09PM (#17266818)
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/little-known-sci-fi-fact-patric...

Roddenbery originally didn't like the idea of a bald captain and made Stuart audition in a wig. After the initial audition he decided that Stuart was perfect no matter how much hair he had. There are a few photos online of him in the wig and man does he look goofy.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ghostbrainalpha on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:31PM (#17267073)
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ambrosite on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:38PM (#17267836)
That doesn't look nearly as bad as I thought it would. I never had a problem with Picard being bald though. Even as a kid he was my favorite character on the show.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by koolba on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:39PM (#17267162)
That’s a really nice wig.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by raverbashing on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:07AM (#17266149)
Mr Roddenberry was very progressive, though I think he might have been too optimistic with how humanity evolves (as others before and after him).
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ianai on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:50AM (#17266601)
Enough literature centers around a dystopian view.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by chongli on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:18PM (#17266916)
Yes, and after Gene Roddenberry died the showrunners turned away from his vision. They made the Federation much darker when they introduced Ro Laren and the Maquis. This tonal shift took centre stage in DS 9 and Voyager. From the low key lighting to the interpersonal conflicts, these shows marked a dramatic departure from Roddenberry's vision.

We saw how deep this rabbit hole really went when they introduced Section 31 and even went so far as to do an episode where the Federation imposed martial law on earth, something I never would have imagined Roddenberry doing.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by krapp on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:43PM (#17267210)
They made the Federation, and humans, more realistic.

The problem with a utopian ideal is that utopias are, by definition, inhumane. Humans are not perfect, so you either have to make them perfect, or force them to conform to a perfect ideal which ignores and suppresses human nature. We war, we hunger, we lust, we hate, we fear... those aspects of our psyche aren't just going to go away because someone invents replicators and warp drives.

Humans that are like us struggling (and often failing, in their imperfection) to live up to an ideal in an imperfect universe are far more relatable and, ironically, more optimistic than simply having them be perfect to begin with and skipping over the messy details of how to get there from here.

Also, in practical storytelling terms, Gene Roddenberry's ideal humans evolved beyond a lot of the pathos that makes for compelling drama. Look at Wesley Crusher, whose character was basically Gene Rodenberry's Ubermensch, on one end of the spectrum , versus someone like Barclay on the other - which character would be more interesting to watch?

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by chongli on Saturday June 09, 2018 @04:39PM (#17274860)
I agree with you that Barclay was far more entertaining to watch then Wesley. The only entertaining thing about Wesley was how much he annoyed captain Picard.

As for utopias, I've spent a lot of time thinking about them recently. I just finished taking a philosophy course on utopian and dystopian societies. The overall impression I got was that utopias are predicated on assumptions about human nature and they tend to marginalize or outright exclude anyone who doesn't fit in. This made for an interesting comparison with the dystopias.

I think Gene Roddenberry's argument is that we can develop a culture of excellence that overcomes the need for any sort of radical biological engineering to make people more agreeable. I don't know it's at all feasible but I find it interesting to imagine.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ianai on Friday June 08, 2018 @08:35PM (#17270834)
The Visitor episodes were some of the best. I loved the concept of his character about as much as the Q.

But then with the right acting and writing many different types of characters can become compelling - see Quark, for instance.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ASalazarMX on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:27PM (#17267016)
I thought you would mention Discovery. That show has strayed even further from Roddenberry's vision, but at the same time tries too hard to still be part of it via references. Enterprise, even with all its problems, managed to stay in spirit better.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by learc83 on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:41PM (#17267176)
>That show has strayed even further from Roddenberry's vision

I don't think Discovery was darker than DS9 at all. I thought it was a fantastic attempt to explore how a highly progressive society deals with a culture who doesn't share their ideals.

They vast majority of the characters are huge believers in the highest ideals of the Federation. Throughout the series they struggle with sticking to those ideals, but at the end they manage to do it. I actually thought that the ending of Discovery was very similar thematically to Picard's decision with Hugh.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ianai on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:43PM (#17267197)
I agree with you both. I wonder why the formula worked for Roddenberry and others left it. It doesn’t seem too hard to follow the general TNG formula.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by trhway on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:45PM (#17267893)
>Yes, and after Gene Roddenberry died the showrunners turned away from his vision.

what is your take on Andromeda? I feel like in many respects it is really back to the original spirit.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ASalazarMX on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:20PM (#17266934)
I hope not. Humans have their inner demons, but historically, noble causes have revolved around reining them.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by magduf on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:21AM (#17266306)
Patrick Steward is one of the very few men who looks really, really good with a bald head (which he had from an early age, he was in his early 30s in 1984's "Dune" IIRC). Most men just don't look very good that way.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by electricslpnsld on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:52PM (#17267305)
> Patrick Steward is one of the very few men who looks really, really good with a bald head

Say what? Lot's of guys rock it! Off the top of my head Jason Statham, Michael Jordan, shaved-head Sam Jackson, Johnny Ive, shaved-head Bryan Cranston all pull it off pretty damn well. What would Vin Diesel even look like with hair?

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by magduf on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:06PM (#17268133)
You're listing mostly a bunch of very successful actors and entertainers, most of whom (except Jordan) probably wouldn't have gone very far if people thought they were ugly. If Vin Diesel looked bad, he wouldn't have gotten the parts he did.

So this is confirmation bias.

Out of the whole population of bald/balding men, these men are the exceptions.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by arunix on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:54AM (#17266652)
Patrick Stewart (b 1940) was 44 in 1984.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by humantorso on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:24PM (#17266976)
I dont think that is true. Most men look okay bald - better than the alternative in any case.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by hfdgiutdryg on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:55PM (#17267330)
That's an extremely subjective statement and, I think, a modern sentiment. Starting around the 1990s, it became much more acceptable for men to be bald, either trimmed very short or shaved.

I mostly thank Patrick Stewart and Michael Jordan for the push toward normalizing it.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by kolbe on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:20AM (#17266295)
Even in the 21st century, you can choose not to care regardless of what other people might think.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ianai on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:51AM (#17266625)
As a bald man, I have mostly chosen to not care. But there are times where I wonder if it hasn’t severely, negatively impacted my life’s path.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by AndrewKemendo on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:57PM (#17267356)
As a not-bald person I have no experience here so I'm curious if you would mind expanding on what you feel like the severe, negative impacts have been?
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ianai on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:04PM (#17267441)
I’ve been called names because of it. Pretty sure it contributed to bullying and work place harassment at my last job. I’ve been told people literally do not believe me because of my looks. The women that rejected me based on my hairline are the least of it.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by AndrewKemendo on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:32PM (#17267755)
Sorry to hear that.

I’ve been told people literally do not believe me because of my looks.

FWIW I've been told the same thing when I wore a beard, and have heard the same of other people for other physical traits.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by macintux on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:25PM (#17267692)
For me, the biggest impact is health. I was recently diagnosed with a very benign skin cancer, but I dearly love open air driving, so trying to figure out how to enjoy my Jeep while not inviting melanoma is tricky.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by AndrewKemendo on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:30PM (#17267748)
Isn't hair relatively low SPF? So wouldn't applying sunscreen solve that problem?
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ciupicri on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:21PM (#17268298)
From http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/09/12/2362010.ht...

> Overall, the researchers found hair offered a protection factor ranging from 5 to 17, which is significantly lower that the average sunscreen, which offers a protection factor of 30.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by macintux on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:34PM (#17267779)
Quite probably.

Since I was a kid I've hated sunscreen so I do my best to find other solutions. Or pretend it's not a problem.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ianai on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:48PM (#17268549)
Yep sunscreen is very nasty stuff. Wish it wasn’t such a pain to work with and wear.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by kolbe on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:20PM (#17266927)
At the very least, you can live knowing that you ended up where you are in life because of who you are, not because of something you pretended to be. I have a techy friend from Harvard class of 2006, but he didn't want to be thought of as a nerd when he got there, so he pretended to be an alpha banker type instead.

Well, fast forward 10 years, and no one bought the alpha schtick, and he missed his chance to be a billionaire working with Zuckerberg.

You never know how positively the world is going to react to you being comfortable and confident with yourself.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by evan_ on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:30PM (#17267064)
> At the very least, you can live knowing that you ended up where you are in life because of who you are

that's only reassuring if he's in a good place...

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by ianai on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:44PM (#17267221)
I’ve been through many hells.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by agumonkey on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:29PM (#17267038)
Half of it is shallow society value. But half is a sign of body degradation, very few aren't distressed by that
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by SilasX on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:44PM (#17267219)
“But still cast good-looking actors for the roles, because viewers care.”
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by scythe on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:20PM (#17266935)
I like how it's somehow "progress" that we stop caring about things. If someone who spent their life contributing to society in exchange for green pieces of paper is willing to give up thousands of them to keep their hair, who am I to complain? Nothing in the Universe has any inherent value. Maybe it feels good to have hair, vs. not. How should I know? I've never been without it. We spend an amazing amount of money on fabrics made from insanely tiny fibers, $300 chairs, carbon fiber bicycles, 10-megapixel screens, and a cornucopia of crap whose only real purpose is making some fraction of life slightly more pleasant at a basic sensory level. But somehow if you want to keep the hair on your head it's a stupid complaint and nobody should ever do anything about it, don't you know that we need that money to find a malaria vaccine, how could you be so vain? Have you looked at EA's profits lately? How about InBev?

I guarantee people will care in the 24th century. People will care about so many pointless things we'll have forgotten how to blow off the distress of balding men with virtue signalling. And we'll be better off for it.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by jrhurst on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:30PM (#17267060)
I think you miss the point of the quote. He was basically telling the interviewer his question was stupid. Yes. In the 24th century they can grow hair on a bald man's head, but they're not gonna judge him if he doesn't. Just like no one gives a fuck if Van Diesel or Dwayne Johnson doesn't have haie.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by CydeWeys on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:22AM (#17266319)
Presumably by the 24th century they've also cured sunburns and skin cancer too.

Meanwhile, in the present day, the top of your head is the part of your body most exposed to the Sun, and hair is useful in preventing sunburns. So being bald isn't equal to having hair.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by hfdgiutdryg on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:18PM (#17267610)
You're getting down voted, but you raise the one issue I have with being bald: sun damage. In spite of daily sunscreen and hats, I'm still accumulating sun damage to my head. This will continue into old age. I like how I look now, but I'm concerned about how I'll look at 65. Hopefully, baldness will be cured by then, or we'll have the ability to completely reverse damage to skin.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by CydeWeys on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:20PM (#17268826)
Maybe people thought I was joking? I wasn't though. Sun damage to the top of your head is a serious concern in being bald. It puts the lie to the statement that the only reason being bald is bad is that people are prejudiced against it. No, it's bad in its own right. Hair is useful protection for your body and the top of your head is the part of your body that is the most exposed to the elements.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by emodendroket on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:22PM (#17267658)
I don't really see how you could have sun damage underneath a hat.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by CydeWeys on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:17PM (#17268796)
Always having to wear a hat is worse than just being able to have hair (if that's going to be an option). Hats are limiting fashion-wise and not appropriate or possible in many situations. The beach is particularly problematic, for instance.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by macintux on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:27PM (#17267715)
Finding and continuously wearing a hat that would entirely compensate for a lack of hair is non-trivial.

Driving at 70mph down the road in a Jeep with no top and no doors, e.g.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by emodendroket on Friday June 08, 2018 @02:55PM (#17268610)
I guess, but even if you have hair your face is pretty vulnerable to burning.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by CydeWeys on Friday June 08, 2018 @03:18PM (#17268805)
Not as much as the top of your head, though. And regardless, even if your face burns, at least your head won't. The more sunburn you get across a larger percentage of your body, the worse it is. Getting less sunburn is always better than getting more sunburn.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by hfdgiutdryg on Saturday June 09, 2018 @02:11PM (#17274202)
Are you a bald, active person? If not, I suggest that you lower your baseless skepticism and open your mind a bit.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by jlebrech on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:29AM (#17266390)
they can also dematerialise you and dematerialise you in seconds.

so i guess it'll fix a few ailments on the way. but then why not just teleport someone who's dying into his fully healthy state.

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by Harvey-Specter on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:36AM (#17266475)
We don't even need a cure for cancer, we'll just not re-materialize the tumors. Brilliant!
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by RobertoG on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:20PM (#17266936)
Wil McCarthy's "The Queendom of Sol", very funny and entertaining series, recommended for whoever interested in that crazy idea (and a lot more):

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1361835.The_Collapsium

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by jlebrech on Friday June 08, 2018 @11:50AM (#17266608)
we could sequence someone's genes at 20 and just teleport you in your 20 year old self every time.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by saalweachter on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:54PM (#17267320)
Man, can you imagine having to decide how you were going to look for the rest of your life (hair style, tattoos, piercings, musculature, body mass...) at age 20? It'd be like when you picked your AIM screen name at age 10 and then had to tell it to people in college.

[Minor nit: genes are insufficient to record someone's physical state.]

[Minor nit: I'd argue age 25-30 is probably a better physical peak to snapshot than age 20.]

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by simias on Friday June 08, 2018 @12:20PM (#17266932)
You'd have to keep the brain intact if you actually want to keep existing continuously. That sounds trickier.
Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by jerf on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:03PM (#17267436)
A lot centers around how you read the series to gauge the power of transporters. Bear in mind these are machines that A: Can accidentally leave a full copy of you behind (Riker) B: Can take your body and split it into "good" and "evil" halves, later recombining them (Kirk) C: Can combine two unrelated life forms together into one (Tuvix) and separate them later and the coup de grace for this discussion D: Can turn you into a childhood version of yourself that still has your full memories (Picard, Guinan, a few others)

So, canonically, the "beam yourself into a younger you" problem is all but solved. Yes, with various minor environmental pokes and prods, but meh, they've demonstrated the ability to replicate those when necessary, so hardly a stopper.

That last one is one of the most egregious examples of how weird it is that nobody ever follows up on anything that happens in Star Trek. Whoops! Figured out how to turn an old man into a ~14 year old with all his memories! Ha ha, life sure is weird, but otherwise uninteresting, right? Unimportant! Move on!

Re:Is the Age-Old Quest for a Baldness Cure Reaching Its End? by saalweachter on Friday June 08, 2018 @01:37PM (#17267809)
Is it "new life" or "new civilizations"? I think you will find it is not. Outside our mandate!