News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by sethammons on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @07:38AM (#17236717)
My favorite is getting ads for the thing you already bought from the place you got it where you are very unlikely to need again anytime soon.

Most recently for me, it was a plumbing part. Now I have targeted ads everywhere for these parts. Sorry org, I finished my project and I won't be doing something similar, hopefully, ever again.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by sudosushi on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:57AM (#17237187)
That's actually a grey/black hat way of boosting your ad sales numbers, even if you didn't click.

You buy x at y store, y store has an ad buy with ShadyAdCo. If you see product x in an ad within z time afterwards, it counts as an influence towards your purchase. ShadyAdCo just made money, and y store can give record numbers.

EDIT: typo

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by moufestaphio on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:35AM (#17237421)
Huh, I never thought of that. Only works if you're using basic/bad metrics. I believe google's stuff is a little more advanced than that and you can see your click-through all the way to buying rate etc.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by bluGill on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:05AM (#17237655)
That only works if you actually click and buy. If you see an ad for a part you need, then go to hardware store and buy it they have no way of knowing that you saw the ad, much less how much influence the ad had.

It also fails to account for awareness being a major reason to buy ads. Ford want to advertise to everybody (probably including Amish) because most people will eventually buy a car, and it is important that you think Ford then. Even if you bought a car yesterday it is important to them that you not forget that you can buy a Ford - they know you won't buy for a few years, but they still want you to think of them.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by wesd on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:54AM (#17238205)
Google has been trying to tie store purchase to ad impression [1]:

"This location tracking ability has allowed Google to send reports to retailers telling them, for example, whether people who saw an ad for a lawn mower later visited or passed by a Home Depot. The location-tracking program has grown since it was first launched with only a handful of retailers. Home Depot, Express, Nissan, and Sephora have participated."

[1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/05/23...

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by mc32 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:41AM (#17238046)
How can it have influence if they know the views happened after the “decision“? Seems odd.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by annamargot on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:51PM (#17241400)
This is the correct answer.

Ask yourself why Facebook counts "post-view" conversions instead of only post-click like AdWords and most others.

New client had been working off the assumption they were seeing ROAS of around 3 (not terrible). When we showed them how to see just the post-click, ROAS is now at 1. That means even if they are selling a product they received for free or stole, ie COGS = 0, they still only breakeven.

Attribution is the key. All this assumes that ad companies and Facebook are honest in the first place about the number of views and clicks an ad has received. Their behavior does not engender much good will for a benefit of the doubt situation.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by ceejayoz on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:45AM (#17237108)
I can't really blame Google/Facebook for this - they don't necessarily know if you completed the purchase.

It's genuinely bizarre when Amazon does it. They know I just bought a $500 vacuum... surely they've got the machine learning chops to teach their algorithm that means I shouldn't ever see a vacuum as a sponsored product for a couple years?

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by telot1 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:53AM (#17237160)
The thought I've heard floated before is that you might not be happy with your new vacuum you just bought. Some percentage of people that buy anything will not be pleased with the result and that new ad in their face might be enough to push them over the edge to return it and buy what is advertised. Amazon just wants to ensure you buy the replacement from them.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by netsharc on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:23AM (#17237852)
Well, amazingly, Amazon also has data if the buyer is a crazy returner...
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by throwawaylalala on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:12AM (#17237273)
Sometimes its a third party seller running the ad; Amazon is making money.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by mszkoda on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:01AM (#17237210)
I've been getting the same exact thing from Amazon for a month now... I already bought a Miele from you Amazon, you should know I don't need another.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by CamelCaseName on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:28AM (#17237376)
I think I can do even better, Amazon served me ads for a product that I sell on Amazon. In fact, they were advertising my exact offer, to me!

Like come on, I just sent you a bunch of these!

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by hknd on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:45AM (#17237503)
This is because ads are never targeted to you directly, but to buckets (audience segments).

If you buy something, you might land in one of those buckets. Advertiser can buy impressions to those buckets. The buckets are not refreshed on a daily basis (depending on the audience provider), and therefor can contain stale data.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by bruceboughton on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:58AM (#17245989)
I believe the GP is talking about the trend of adverts for the exact product you just viewed/bought on the exact store following you around the Internet for a few days.

e.g. you bought a blue striped t-shirt from H&M and it is continually advertised to you by H&M for a few days.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by 794CD01 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:11AM (#17237270)
Ads don't solely exist to convince you to buy a product. Some ads are designed to make you feel good about the purchase you already made. or to teach people who will never buy a product to respect people who do.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by tripzilch on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:27PM (#17257357)
So, ads are in fact optimizing our experience using these dangerously large amounts of tracking data, they're just working so subtly and ineffably, we just don't know enough about marketing's mysterious ways to appreciate it.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by ceejayoz on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:13AM (#17237278)
Why would Amazon showing me a dozen other vacuums make me feel good about my purchase? How would a post-purchase ad teach me not to make that purchase I already made?
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by lbotos on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:32AM (#17237400)
You are thinking narrowly. Lets say your profile is "environmentally conscious family man". If you just bought a Tesla, and for 3 weeks after all you saw were ads around the internet reinforcing that "teslas are good for the environment", "teslas are great for budding families". Those ads are designed to generate brand loyalty.

In a completely different context, ads can be used to reenforce status. That was a separate distinct point gp was making. If you want to buy luxury goods, but can't afford them, a well placed gucci ad can act as a brand anchor & keep you yearning.

Your point stands, that the "mega retarget post amazon ads" are a flaw in the system, but as the system gets more data, they will be tweaked to be more effective.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by ceejayoz on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:36AM (#17237981)
Amazon has plenty of data already to fix this - they undoubtedly could determine "purchasers of X don't buy another one for Y months on average afterwards" - and I remain baffled that they haven't.

This specific case - "here are some other vacuums you didn't buy" - is one that seems more likely to hurt my brand loyalty and post-purchase feelings than anything else.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by ethbro on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:30AM (#17238602)
So, in the other-branded vacuum case, I can see a reason: buyer's regret.

Chances being that anything that irks you about your new vacuum are going to be most accutely felt in the initial period.

So reminding you heavily that there are other, greener-grass vacuums out there seems productive in inceptioning "I'll never buy X brand again!" resentment.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by tripzilch on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:31PM (#17257413)
Yeah but you can turn that argument each way, it's just reasoning backwards. It amounts to just doing whatever with the tracking data, waiting for something positive to happen because of it, and then claiming it.

They can do that with random data and it'll work just as well. It's called divination and you don't need to track me for it.

Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by slededit on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:33AM (#17238632)
Amazon doesn't care if your loyal to the vacuum brand. They just want the purchase to be through them. If you are unhappy with the purchase they want the rebound sale.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by 794CD01 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @05:43PM (#17242351)
I can't speak for an individual ad I haven't seen. Even if I did see it, I don't necessarily know marketing enough to analyze it. I just know that the purpose can be broader than your post was originally giving it credit for.
Re:Apple will attempt to jam Facebook's web-tracking tools by txsh on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:50AM (#17237542)
A large part of advertising is making you feel good about something you already purchased rather than convincing you to buy a new product. Someone who doesn’t know about algorithms will see that ad and conclude they bought the right plumbing supplies, better stay with that brand the next time I need some, tell my friends what I bought when they ask about it. Maybe plumbing supplies isn’t the best example.