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Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by patrickg_zill on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @04:53AM (#17235970)
How many will they ship, though? And at what price?

Interesting how only when AMD starts shipping something competitive with their chips, does Intel roll up its sleeves and get busy on breaking new ground. There almost seems to be a correlation ...!

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by hvidgaard on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @06:46AM (#17236459)
When AMD released a competitive GPU, nVidia released a new GPU with chips that had been sitting in a warehouse for more than 6 months. Competition is necessary.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by ashleyn on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:14AM (#17237747)
I bought a Sandy Bridge CPU in 2011. 4 cores, 8 threads, 3.0 ghz.

Last year I went looking through consumer-class CPUs looking to upgrade. They are more or less all a very unimpressive 4 core, 8 thread, 3.0 ghz. Maybe they have a tiny bit more cache. There is absolutely no reason to upgrade.

Progress on consumer-class CPUs this decade has been utterly anemic. The only one I've seriously been wowed by is the Ryzen Threadripper. Now all of a sudden, Intel is readying better CPUs. Entirely coincidental, I'm sure.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by ajross on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:01AM (#17238293)
That 2600K you bought in 2011 was a premium part. The ones you're looking at now are low end. If you look in the same price range you find 6-core Coffee Lake CPUs at 4.4GHz, which has 50% more cache, about 2x the GPU performance, maybe 15% better IPC on typical workloads, and draws about 30% less power under load.

No, it's not the mid 90's anymore where we were tripling performance every time we upgraded. There's still progress.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by krylon on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:57AM (#17238244)
> They are more or less all a very unimpressive 4 core, 8 thread, 3.0 ghz. Maybe they have a tiny bit more cache. There is absolutely no reason to upgrade.

In a way, that was good thing, though. For the first time in my memory, a five-year-old PC is not a piece of junk I am just too lazy to get rid off, but a machine fully capable running current software (at least after install more RAM and an SSD). (Within reasonable limits, of course, I am not talking about high end games or such.)

The fact that CPUs did not get faster (not much, at least) also meant that software could not afford to get slower, which greatly extended the useful lifespans of older machines.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by cdelsolar on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:38AM (#17238687)
Yeah, I'm on my 2013 Macbook Pro right now and it still runs like a dream (within reason). I don't see myself changing it anytime soon.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by bzbarsky on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @12:07PM (#17239037)
A lot of the consumer-class CPU focus this decade has been on power consumption and the GPU part.

A Sandy Bridge 4-core, 8-thread, 3.0 ghz CPU from 2011 would be something like a i7-2960XM. It's actually 2.70 ghz base frequency, but 8MB cache and 55W.

A comparable modern CPU (same cores, threads, base frequency, cache) is a i7-8559U. This has a TDP of 28W.

The old processor would scale up to 3.7 ghz while the new one scales up to 4.5. And the new processor has 1.5 times the memory bandwidth. And I expect the GPU is a lot better.

The new processor probably has somewhat better instruction throughput at the same clock rate. All that said, I agree this is not the 90s and we're not getting 10x or more improvements in speed over the course of 7 years here... The new processor _is_ better; just not enough better to be worth paying $400 for unless you're getting a new computer anyway for other reasons.

(Note that these are both "mobile" processors, fwiw; I assume that's the comparison point if we're talking consumer-class, because consumers don't really buy desktops.)

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by civilitty on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @01:01PM (#17239659)
You need to understand how CPUs are made to understand the progress in the last decade. When Intel releases a new generation of i3/i5/i7 processors, they aren't different designs - in fact, they're the exact same chip. The only difference is how many errors were present on each chip and the final product is extremely sensitive to the smallest errors like scratches, missing or misplaced dopants, and other material impurities.

In order to maximize their yield and make consumer processors an economic reality, Intel tests every single chip that goes off the assembly line and cut the "fuses" of the regions that don't pass quality control. A perfect chip becomes an i7 (or an i9 or even sometimes a Xeon) while the less perfect chips become i5s and the ones with the most errors become i3s with most of their cores disabled.

As other posters have noted: that 2600K CPU part you bought in 2011 is the Intel Extreme line, which are the top of the line i7s that have not only passed QC on their cores but have also been "burned in" or tested for stability at the higher end of possible operating frequencies for that generation. You're literally comparing the best of the best from 7 years ago to stuff that just barely missed the dumpster.

For example, out of the dozens of desktops I've built for my friends, family, and me, all of the -K processors that I've used are still alive today - including an i7-965 Extreme that's almost ten years old now. My experience with i3/i5 is much worse.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by grouseway on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @02:15PM (#17240477)
Lets not exaggerate the premium level of his 2600K chip. It was $317 when he bought it. Higher than average but hardly some $2k xeon monster.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by loeg on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @02:22PM (#17240558)
It's true both Intel and (especially) AMD sell fused-off core CPUs as downmarket models, it's not true that Intel only uses a single die from their 4 core i3 models all the way up through their, e.g., 28-core models (as mentioned in TFA).

AMD's Zen arch is an 8 core die, and they get very high yields out of it. Even the downmarket parts mostly or entirely had 8 working cores before fusing off.

Intel's big 28 core parts are (at least historically) a huge single die, with very very low yields. They charge a huge dollar amount for the parts because they cannot afford not to — the manufacturing costs are very high. There is some speculation that this 5GHz part is actually a bridged smaller die design, like AMD's Zen platform. Intel's bridge design is called "EMIB," if you want to google that speculation further.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by theandrewbailey on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @01:12PM (#17248964)
> As other posters have noted: that 2600K CPU part you bought in 2011 is the Intel Extreme line,

No. The 2700K was a high end consumer CPU that could be bought for about $300, and didn't need a crazy expensive motherboard or socket. It wasn't extreme (also note the lack of an "X" in the model name).

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by loeg on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @02:14PM (#17240463)
Haswell+ has much better IPC than the SB generation. AMD's Zen platform has a bit better IPC than SB, a lot more cores, and generally clocks above 3 GHz. I'd consider upgrading.

(FWIW, TR is a very upmarket part compared to a 4-core SB and you will pay a large premium for that, especially for the motherboard. However, even an 8-core Ryzen 1700X would be a huge upgrade over a 4-core SB and the 4- and 6-core Ryzens look very affordable.)

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by balls187 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:23AM (#17238530)
How are you ascertaining that there is no reason to upgrade?

I went from a Nehalem i7 3.20GHz extreme hex core, to a kabylake i7 7700k 4-core, and it's a night and day difference.

In every one of my use cases my 7700k outperforms the older CPU.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by WhiteOwlLion on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:36AM (#17238668)
Depends what you are doing and whether the upgrade justifies the cost and productivity gain. I just bought several i5 quad core 3.2Ghz Dell Optiplex 3010 for our church for $35 ea. They run Windows 10 and LibreOffice just fine on a HDD. Now, if I'm crunching for distributed computing, I might want that quad XEON 24-core 1U server off eBay instead. Just depends on your workload and use case.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by z3t4 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:34PM (#17241251)
Don't just compare cores and ghz, look at cpu benchmarks and also power consumption.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by bhouston on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @07:38AM (#17236716)
Yeah, Volta should have been ready to ship in volume like 6 months ago.

Now I am not completely sure they are just sitting in a warehouse though. I understand Volta is currently in mass production and will launch around July/August.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by twtw on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:50AM (#17237540)
All the current rumors and info I've seen indicate that Volta will never be in a consumer graphics card, so it has already launched (tesla v100 was available ~July 2017).
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by bhouston on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:13PM (#17243330)
I was referring to Volta launching in mainstream GeForce GPU line. I understand it is launching soon.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by twtw on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:51AM (#17237551)
could you specify what generation you are talking about? There have been a lot of GPUs.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by fyi1183 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @07:07AM (#17236553)
Exactly. Keep in mind that AMD is currently selling 32-core chips.

They don't go up to that insane frequency, but still. There's plenty of opportunity to shop around if you want really beefy systems, which is a very refreshing state of affairs compared to just two years ago.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by chaosbutters314 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:20PM (#17241075)
The 1950x is 16 cores and 32 threads
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by cthalupa on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @03:44PM (#17241341)
So?

The Epyc 7501, 7601, etc, are all 32 cores and 64 threads.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by ajross on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:58AM (#17238248)
They're already shipping them. 28 core Skylake-SP parts have been available under the Xeon Platinum branding for almost a year now. This is presumably just a consumer paint job on the existing silicon. And yes, they're very expensive: $10k+ per chip.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by ucha on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @12:00PM (#17238941)
Yes, the Xeon Platinum 8180 had 28 cores clocked at 2.5Ghz with a TDP of 205W. I don't see how they could pull off 5Ghz this year, apart from using LN2...
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by ajross on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @12:11PM (#17239076)
You've gotten confused about how the numbers interact. The 2.5GHz is a base frequency calibrated to be under the TDP under all operating conditions[1], actual clocks are allowed to be higher (in particular when only a subset of cores are used), but subject to thermal throttling. The chip turbos to 3.8GHz in single core operation. Surely the 5GHz number is likewise a turbo rate.

This sounds extraordinarily doable to me. I'd be very shocked if this was anything but an off-the-shelf SKL-SP die with consumer fusing.

[1] And given that it's a server part, this calibration is inherently more conservative than you see in desktop stuff.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by loeg on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @02:28PM (#17240611)
That Cinebench score reflects a multi-threaded benchmark, which is not a workflow where the CPU would (or should, anyway) turbo a single core.

Also, while not AVX-intensive, CB does use some AVX, which usually draws more power (and thus limits clock more) than pure integer or even ordinary FPU computation.

Jumping from 3.8 GHz single core turbo to 5 GHz 28-core turbo is a big jump in power.

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by krylon on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:51AM (#17238182)
In Germany, we have a saying: Konkurrenz belebt das Geschäft (roughly: Competition enlivens business).

I am just afraid Intel will once more use its deep pockets and questionable business practices to crush AMD just when things were starting to get interesting again.

EDIT: Typo

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by leovailati on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @09:08AM (#17237249)
Interesting, I wonder if it has to do with the marketing side of things rather than development. They cannot develop a CPU in less than 6 months. I think it could just be that they want to have the last word, so people will talk about it for longer.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by api on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @07:36AM (#17236707)
Did Moore's law really stagnate as much as we think or do we just have a lazy monopoly?
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by dahart on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:11AM (#17238389)
Moore's law has slowed somewhat for CPUs, and Intel announced a few years ago that they were intentionally slowing down the pace of their releases.

"Intel stated in 2015 that the pace of advancement has slowed, starting at the 22 nm feature width around 2012, and continuing at 14 nm.[20] Brian Krzanich, CEO of Intel, announced, 'Our cadence today is closer to two and a half years than two.'"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

"Intel disclosed in a regulatory filing that it is slowing the pace with which it launches new chip-making technology."

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601102/intel-puts-the-bra...

Moore's law for GPUs, on the other hand, hasn't slowed down yet because it's not as close to the wall.

https://blog.openai.com/ai-and-compute/

https://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-ceo-says-moores-law-is-dead-a...

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by ethbro on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:54AM (#17237174)
(Tremendous hubris warning, please correct me if I'm off base with where I go)

Moore's law doesn't include capital investment as a factor.

Initially, it could be mostly ignored as it was swamped by available profits (at least for microprocessors, less so for memory). More recently, I believe it's been matched by increased volume of semiconductors used throughout the global economy.

But at some point we'll reach saturation. And costs to shrink feature size will continue to increase exponentially. So it simply won't make financial sense to continue.

(Unless non-silicon, non-electrical, or radical patterning technology hits a breakthrough)

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by Synaesthesia on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @08:30AM (#17237004)
Moores law held up pretty well. Frequency scaling did not continue as it did in the old days, I mean we had 3ghz back in the P4 days. But performance has certainly improved thanks to better IPC, more cores etc.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by chriswarbo on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:15AM (#17238438)
I remember reading about IBM Power chips running at 5GHz years ago (maybe it was https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/07/01/04/1824223/ibms-ne... ).

Presumably they were too expensive (manufacturing, power, cooling, etc.) since they're not ubiquitous. IIRC the "barrier" to going any higher was the speed of light across the chip: running faster than 5GHz would require the output to be causally independent from the input!

Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by Joky on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:15AM (#17237760)
The law is about transistors I believe, not about frequency or performance, isn’t it?
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by leetcrew on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @10:25AM (#17237873)
as originally formulated, yes, but no one really cares about transistor density itself; we care because it correlates well with performance.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by newman314 on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @11:55AM (#17238874)
Not quite 5ghz. We have P8 based E880Cs running SAP @ 4.95ghz, iirc.
Re:Intel demonstrates a 28-core processor running at 5GHz by PedroBatista on Tuesday June 05, 2018 @07:44AM (#17236737)
Both.