The "glass ceiling" statement is true in big corporations (you'll never get to the top if you have not graduated from the top Engineering Schools, even if you have the skills).

However, in Small & Medium Businesses, the startup movement has changed that a bit and the diploma is way less important than before.

In terms of mindset, it seems that it is an important part of our culture: Philippe d'Iribarne calls it "The logic of Honor" [1].

To sum up the differences between French and US management (at least, according to Iribarne)[2]:

- French relies on the concept of honor and duty. French employees consider that their honor and rank is way more important than their contract. You must manage with this in mind, and accept to be flexible in order to show consideration. You must also explain what are the limits so that employees will not go over them. Managers must give free space to their employees, being "invisible" when everything works out, respecting their honor, but must also go on the field when it goes wrong in order to show "how it's supposed to be done" and to inspire respect by example.

- US relies on honesty, and on the transparency of a work contract. Managers must control the work on their contractors on a periodic base in order to show interest and respect, as part of the contractual relationship.

=> In France, according to this study, the "Us vs Them" should be accepted by management as long as the companies goes well.

[1] https://www.ecole.org/fr/662/VA021205-ENG.pdf

[2] http://lirsa.cnam.fr/medias/fichier/diribarne2html__12633047...

The same happened to me. The French megacorp I was working for told me that my diploma level had a wage ceiling that they couldn't break. They offered to pay for training so I could get the required diploma in parallel of my work over a year or two. That was actually a very decent offer, but I was fed up with studying at the time so I just left.

Now I'm working in the USA where nobody cares. I don't consider myself a rocket scientist, but it's still quite sad for France to see all the comments about other French people that were similarly pushed out.

Last time I went to a meetup in SF about tech work in France, one of the French employers advertising there answered a question about the FR/US wage gap with "we aren't looking for mercenaries", essentially trying to fault workers' character for daring to ask for more. If I ever go back to France, it will be with solid plans on how to work remotely for a foreign company if the situation hasn't changed.

No change then years ago I interviewed with a uk subsidiary of a French company traveling 3-4 hours down to the south coast to do that.

When they found I had not been to university - they looked at me like I had just taken a dump on the floor.

No change - if anything, it's even worse, as the education requirement now means everyone has a degree (even though they might not have the passion nor the actual skill for it), and since the requirement no longer works as a filter for good candidates (I'd argue it never really worked, but now it's even worse) they are now requiring education and experience (for the same pay an intern would get in the UK).

Even assuming you have a degree, how are you supposed to get the experience when pretty much all the jobs require previous experience? And no, the trick of applying despite not having experience and making up for it at the interview doesn't work - job requirements are very rigid in France; either you'll get rejected right at the start, or if you do make it through all the interviews they will still reject you at the end once they find out (and possibly even consider you as a fraud for applying anyway despite not having the experience).

So how do new people get in? Vitamin F, for family and relations. If you can go through a company and alot of people have the same name, you strt to grasp how such systems work.

It really limits how far and where you can go to whoever your parents and family had connections to.

Helps to goto ENA :-) though the ENA students we had at BT where uniformly great

ENA is a shit school that has been producing pre-formated political cronies since its creation.

It can be an issue everywhere, not just in France.

I make a decent business bringing European developers — especially Germans — without degrees into the UK where nobody gives a shit.

That's funny because I used to work in a shop that send ppl the other way around after a 6 week bootcamp... Anecdata and all... I don't think there are many ppl in either de or uk who emigrate for purely economic reasons - it's for the adventure first, and of course more money is always nice.

What does the start-up scene in France look like in comparison, in regards to requiring the right university background? Do investors react similarly or do they care less about that?

I think it really depends on which start-up (and investors) you look at. I work at one that has two developers with no university degrees, and it wasn't an issue recruiting them, and I don't even think investors know about this. Implementation details, sort of.

Totally agreed, and I left France as well for similar reasons.

As an anecdote, even with my current experience (mid-range backend engineer) I would be struggling to get any IT job in France (because I didn't spend 5 years in higher education, which for them would trump my actual experience), and if I do get one by some miracle I'd be paid around the same that an intern would make in my current country (UK).