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Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by kuschku on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:16AM (#17036972)
If you can save money by moving to AWS at its publicly listed prices, your company has absolutely mismanaged its IT infrastructure.

You can do 10x cheaper than AWS easily, if you are willing tomake tradeoffs that AWS just can't make globally for all their customers.

EDIT: If you’re paying silicon valley wages, and target a global audience with your site/product, and can get from AWS something cheaper than the publicly listed prices, then AWS very likely will be a good deal for you. But many companies have different needs than these, and may be able to save money by dropping things they don’t need.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by sigi45 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:34AM (#17037035)
Its sometimes just easier to use AWS instead of finding those people and with those people, you have more dependency on those people.

Now with AWS i can manage a whole infrastructre AND write code where you needed an admin team before.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by kuschku on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:44AM (#17037062)
Sure, but that’s always a tradeoff.

If you just use EC2, though, you’ll find many other providers of virtual or dedicated servers for rent for much cheaper, with similar performance and reliability.

If you’re fully integrated in the AWS ecosystem, it is much more convenient, but also of course more expensive.

That said, unless you’re in silicon valley, your hiring costs will be so much lower than amazon’s that even your own admin team might end up cheaper than using Amazon’s.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by bpicolo on Thursday May 10, 2018 @08:50AM (#17038375)
Just using EC2 is a corner case. The huge benefit is the wide variety of hosted services you get to take advantage of and not roll on your own.
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by Rapzid on Thursday May 10, 2018 @05:57AM (#17037525)
Your avg hire comp may be quite a bit lower outside of the major tech cities, but your still gonna pay a lot for the really good people. You may need less of those people and at a later point with AWS though, depending.
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by matwood on Thursday May 10, 2018 @09:32AM (#17038644)
> You can do 10x cheaper than AWS easily, if you are willing tomake tradeoffs that AWS just can't make globally for all their customers.

Are you really replicating AWS or just EC2? How do you replicate S3? Glacier? What about Aurora (DB replication that actually works!). If all I need is raw compute, I can go back to building machines and beat AWS prices but I will have no where near the same level of functionality, flexibility, and now it is up to me to maintain them.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by kuschku on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:20AM (#17039635)
That’s the entire point. If you don’t use all the same services, or use them differently, you can make tradeoffs that AWS can’t.
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by MBCook on Thursday May 10, 2018 @10:57AM (#17039376)
Really? What if you have an occasionaly peaky load with BIG peaks? You have to keep enough hardware on hand to satisfy that even if it only happens, say, 10% of the time.

That’s a lot of wasted infrastructure and time managing it.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by leonroy on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:22AM (#17036997)
Care to share on where savings can be made with a DIY approach vs AWS?
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by kuschku on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:32AM (#17037029)
The largest factor is bandwidth. In the EU you can get bandwidth a factor 100x cheaper in most situations than with AWS.

The second factor is levels of abstraction. It's cheaper to run your own virtualization software on rented dedicated hardware than to use EC2, and it's cheaper to run your own kubernetes cluster than to use EKS or GKE.

The places where having external companies do it sabes the most is (a) in running the actual hardware and networks and (b) providing a platform for your software (e.g. Google app engine).

Taking a bunch of rented dedicated servers and configuring kubernetes is cheaper than renting the computational power through GKE or EKS.

But basically yeah, these are the same standard solutions to saving money with hosting that have been pretty much known for decades.

EDIT: Be aware, this only applies for the publicly listed prices — if your company can get a deal like Snapchat did with Google, or Netflix with Amazon, then the math may work out entirely different. But I don't know what they pay so I can't comment on that.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by ukj on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:45AM (#17037064)
Does your model factor in the cost of human time, availability, agility and management complexity?

How quickly can you scale up your design 10x? 100x?

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by kuschku on Thursday May 10, 2018 @04:20AM (#17037163)
> How quickly can you scale up your design 10x? 100x?

Who needs to scale 100x in a matter of hours? For those companies, AWS may be very useful.

My entire point is that not everyone needs all the functionality AWS provides, and that’s where you can save the money.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by manigandham on Thursday May 10, 2018 @06:12AM (#17037584)
Scaling really isn't that big of a deal. 99.99% of companies do not "scale" very fast at all. Most large deployments are grown organically over months or years.

Flexibility is a much bigger factor in using the cloud.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by ukj on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @03:03AM (#17080531)
It is one an the same problem - money/time trade-off. Which one is worth more to you? It depends.

I've worked at organisations where "get N extra servers" was a 6-8 month process. Because of this you have to be extremely good at capacity planning.

And very few organisations are good at these guessing games.

Either you over-provision with a generous safety margin; or you don't - and your fail to handle peak loads.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by dogma1138 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @03:40AM (#17037049)
Show me the DC which will provide bandwidth and collocation cheaper than AWS on a rack basis. Also keep in mind that ever since crypto DCs have a very strict limit on power consumption so there are many more hidden fees now.
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by viraptor on Thursday May 10, 2018 @05:29AM (#17037394)
> ever since crypto DCs have a very strict limit on power consumption

Has it changed much? I haven't done real hardware in a while, but I remember the rack power to be a very limited resource years ago. (I.e. you could easily pack more hardware in the rack than you'd be allowed to power)

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by dogma1138 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @06:03AM (#17037552)
What changed is that they are now agrresively charge you these days.

In London area (city and outskirts like Oxford) its £1500-2000 per 10kw and they count the PSU rating regardless of what you actually use. And that is on paper only as many DCs limit a rack to 20A which gives 4.8kw only so if you need more you need to lease another rack which costs more money. And leasing adjacent racks also isn’t really cheap they usually give you maybe 2-3 ones if you need more than that well then you are now leasing floor space which means if you need say one rack with 15kw rated bare metal you may end up having to lease enough room to hold 10 racks if not more.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by chillydawg on Thursday May 10, 2018 @10:16AM (#17039013)
Oxford is not outskirts of London. It's 50 miles of farmland and towns away.
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by dogma1138 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @02:16PM (#17041565)
Outskirts in this case is anything that is about an hour from the circular but that could be just me.
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by edf13 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @05:33AM (#17037412)
Agree - bandwidth is the biggest factor by far.

This applies to AWS and GCP

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by oblio on Thursday May 10, 2018 @04:10AM (#17037135)
Can’t you just use a CDN and get cheaper bandwidth that way?
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by kuschku on Thursday May 10, 2018 @04:22AM (#17037177)
For static content, of course! But if you have highly dynamic content, that gets quite a bit more complicated.
Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by nova22033 on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:07AM (#17039499)
> and it's cheaper to run your own kubernetes cluster than to use EKS

That's an interesting data point considering EKS isn't GA yet.

Re:Xero reveals the impact of mammoth Amazon Web Services mi... by kuschku on Thursday May 10, 2018 @11:23AM (#17039677)
Premise 1: You can find cheaper hosters than EC2.

Now we can make a simple case differentiation:

(a) EKS is more expensive than EC2. Due to Premise 1, that means EKS is more expensive than alternative hosters. QED.

(b) EKS is cheaper than EC2. Possible, but very unlikely, and I’m betting against this.