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Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by nodesocket on Monday April 30, 2018 @02:09PM (#16960849)
> Is organized in Delaware, the jurisdiction of choice for many new LLCs.

Be aware that if you are "doing business" in California which means you live there you also have to file as a California foreign entity and pay the absurd anti-small business flat tax of $800 a year.

This also does not include your state income tax liabilities in California. Just because the LLC is formed in Delaware does not mean you don't have to pay income taxes in the state you reside. Delaware is just the legal residence, has nothing to do with income taxes.

I moved to Tennessee in January and switched my single-member disregarded entity LLC from California to Tennessee. The annual fee in Tennessee is $400 vs $800 and there is NO STATE INCOME tax in beautiful TN.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by pbnjay on Monday April 30, 2018 @07:51PM (#16963544)
Watch out - Tennessee has an 6.5% excise tax on LLCs which is essentially an income tax if you're self employed.

https://www.tn.gov/revenue/taxes/franchise---excise-tax.html

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by nodesocket on Monday April 30, 2018 @08:48PM (#16963816)
-- Update: Buried deep in the depths of TN website and using the most confusing and counterintuitive language ever assembled is this article:

https://revenue.support.tn.gov/hc/en-us/articles/204647155-W...

Essentially it says if I am a disregarded entity for federal tax purposes I am exempt from both franchise and exercise taxes.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by nodesocket on Monday April 30, 2018 @11:53PM (#16964473)
Ok, I am even more confused after reading this:

https://revenue.support.tn.gov/hc/en-us/article_attachments/...

How do you even have a single member LLC that is a disregarded entity where the single entity is a corporation? Huh?

That seems to indicate I am responsible for these taxes?

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @01:18AM (#16964742)
> How do you even have a single member LLC that is a disregarded entity where the single entity is a corporation?

LLC stands for "limited liability company," not corporation [1]. When one says "corporation" in a legal sense, it is typically understood to exclude LLCs. (That said, LLCs can elect to be treated as corporations for tax purposes.)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by pbnjay on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @08:27PM (#16973067)
I'm not an accountant/lawyer, but yeah my reading is if you're a sole proprietor, disregarded for IRS purposes (e.g. you use Schedule C)... then yeah you owe TN this tax.

FWIW, I don't live in TN, but I used to. And I've done sole prop LLC's in a couple states now so I looked into moving back to TN and found this info.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by nodesocket on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @09:04PM (#16973243)
That is also how I read it, but I reached out to an accountant today and he said no. His response was:

> Since you are an LLC, and you are operating an active business, you will need to file a Franchise and Excise tax return, but you will be exempt from the Excise portion of the tax.

No idea how it works? I'm thoroughly confused.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by jknightco on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @04:19AM (#16965359)
LLC members can be other LLCs or corporations.
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by billconan on Monday April 30, 2018 @03:20PM (#16961408)
So if I live in CA, it might be better to directly register a CA company to save cost, rather than registering a Delaware company via Strip Atlas?
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by theptip on Monday April 30, 2018 @03:58PM (#16961710)
Yes, here's a recent HN thread with some more background on the CA LLC formation process:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16805322

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by mikeleeorg on Monday April 30, 2018 @02:34PM (#16961049)
This is very important info. I've seen some founders get tripped up over this. Hopefully Stripe Atlas LLC provides support for foreign entity registration and taxes too (I would assume they do).
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by patio11 on Monday April 30, 2018 @02:38PM (#16961083)
We don't yet foreign entity registration in the product, but you could imagine us automating this, in addition to the Delaware franchise tax filing and registered agent services which we already handle.
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by mechwarrior on Monday April 30, 2018 @04:27PM (#16961962)
If foreign entity registration was automated for NY I would use this product immediately.
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by xapata on Monday April 30, 2018 @11:22PM (#16964367)
> could imagine us [doing]

Euphamism for "That's on the roadmap, but I'm not allowed to announce it yet." Probably.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by ryanSrich on Monday April 30, 2018 @05:06PM (#16962349)
CA in general makes absolutely no sense to start a business in. There are zero arguments for starting a business in CA. Oregon, Washington, Texas, Colorado, etc. are all objectively better choices. Even if you're interested in raising money from SV investors you're far better off locating in Seattle, Denver, Portland, Austin, etc.
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by Meekro on Monday April 30, 2018 @06:10PM (#16962880)
I definitely agree with you that there are better states than California, but I recently moved my online company from California to Texas and discovered a really nasty surprise: Texas considers web hosting, server rental, SaaS, etc. to be services subject to sales tax [1]. Washington actually does as well, since you mentioned it.

This will complicate your life in two ways: First, your internet company now has to enumerate subscribers in the same state as you and charge them sales tax. Your competitors, located in friendlier territories, can undercut you by not having to do this.

Second, any payments you make to a SaaS/hosting vendor are now subject to use tax. Do you pay AWS for hosting every month? Get ready to cough up ~6% of that for Texas' treasury. If you're running the kind of business where your hosting bill will grow proportionally to your revenue, this amounts to a tax on revenue. In my case, it wildly exceeds anything California ever charged me in income tax.

[1] https://blog.taxjar.com/saas-sales-tax/

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by lenjaffe on Monday April 30, 2018 @06:39PM (#16963122)
> this amounts to a tax on revenue.

Corporations wanted to be people. People pay income taxes on their revenue, not their profits.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by 20after4 on Monday April 30, 2018 @10:15PM (#16964141)
What about deductions?
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by geofft on Monday April 30, 2018 @08:08PM (#16963635)
"I have social connections and support structures in California" sounds like a pretty good reason to me. Starting a business, paying extra taxes, and being willing to stick with it for the long term sounds better than being lonely and giving up 6 months in or deciding not to start it at all.
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by knicholes on Monday April 30, 2018 @05:41PM (#16962686)
You forgot the lovely deseret (#2!) of Salt Lake City! https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/21/the-top-15-cities-in-us-to-s...
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by caust1c on Monday April 30, 2018 @06:05PM (#16962850)
Except you know, California Labor Code section 2870...

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...

I'd be happy to know about other states which have similar laws.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by koops on Monday April 30, 2018 @05:20PM (#16962470)
Is "doing business" in California really defined as living in California? What's your source for that?
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by mikeyouse on Monday April 30, 2018 @06:28PM (#16963033)
It's not exclusively defined as living in California, but if you live in California and have an LLC, it almost certainly requires registration in the state:

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/Doing-Business-in-Californ...

For taxable years beginning on or after 1/1/2011, a taxpayer is doing business in California if it actively engages in any transaction for the purpose of financial or pecuniary gain or profit in California or if any of the following conditions are satisfied:

> The taxpayer is organized or commercially domiciled in California.

> Sales, as defined in subdivision (e) or (f) of R&TC 25120, of the taxpayer in California, including sales by the taxpayer’s agents and independent contractors, exceed the lesser of $500,000 [1] or 25 percent of the taxpayer's total sales.

> Real and tangible personal property of the taxpayer in California exceed the lesser of $50,000[1] or 25 percent of the taxpayer's total real and tangible personal property.

> The amount paid in California by the taxpayer for compensation, as defined in subdivision (c) of R&TC 25120, exceeds the lesser of $50,000[1] or 25 percent of the total compensation paid by the taxpayer.

> For the conditions above, the sales, property, and payroll of the taxpayer include the taxpayer's pro rata or distributive share of pass-through entities. "Pass-through entities" means partnerships, LLCs treated as partnerships, or S corporations.

So if your 'HQ' is in California, if 25% of your sales are in California, if more than 25% of your property is in California, or if more than 25% of the total compensation you pay is in California, you need a California LLC.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by patmorgan23 on Monday April 30, 2018 @06:27PM (#16963028)
If you have a physical presence in a state you are considered doing business in that state.
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by mikeryan on Monday April 30, 2018 @08:01PM (#16963607)
Normally I’m pro simple answers but I think this answer over simplifies a bit too far. When it comes to allocating state revenue just having a presence in a state doesn’t mean as much as “where services are performed” or products sold. It’s a heck of a dance dealing with these issues some tax time.
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by wilg on Monday April 30, 2018 @07:35PM (#16963452)
Given this, is there any advantage (as a Californian) to having a Delaware LLC?
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @01:22AM (#16964755)
> is there any advantage (as a Californian) to having a Delaware LLC?

Two big advantages to Delaware:

1. Fast courts. When I last looked, it was 180 days from complaint to decision in the Superior Courts while California took 900+ days. (Also notable, Delaware proudly publishes these statistics. California's were tougher to find.)

2. Developed law. Since most companies are in Delaware, most law is settled in Delaware. Lots of edge cases have been smoothed out. It's also a more business-friendly code than California's.

That said, everyone's situation is different. Consulting with a lawyer is advisable.

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by mikeryan on Monday April 30, 2018 @07:53PM (#16963560)
I just went through this with my attorney and lawyer and the answer was pretty much “no”
Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by xapata on Monday April 30, 2018 @11:19PM (#16964361)
> attorney and lawyer

Two different people? Aren't those words synonyms?

Re:Stripe Atlas for LLCs by mikeryan on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @11:52PM (#16973910)
Sorry I meant lawyer and accountant.