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Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by blackbagboys on Thursday April 19, 2018 @05:53PM (#16880511)
So a tiny handful of top performers - plausibly few enough that you could fit them all on a schoolbus - in an ultra-hot technical field are raking in huge sums, for the moment.

Unless you are a top professor at an R1 research university or have a PhD from an R1 university studying under the other top minds in the field or are otherwise in the most elite fraction of the profession, it doesn't sound like this is particularly useful information for the average practicing or aspiring data-tician. What's the typical salary for someone with, say, a two-year professional masters?

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by salarydata on Thursday April 19, 2018 @08:07PM (#16881207)
$300k. I work at Google, have a few good papers, and a couple years of professional experience, and dropped out of grad school. TBH not really clear that I'm doing much better than peers without ML expertise.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by nerdponx on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:21AM (#16882130)
Google is still the top of the field. Many people go entire careers without publishing a paper. You are probably smarter than average and get paid accordingly.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by ihattendorf on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:24PM (#16881483)
Salary or total compensation?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by googsalary on Thursday April 19, 2018 @11:46PM (#16882021)
I make 220k salary and 480k total comp as a staff software engineer (not in AI) - so this really could be either a higher performing staff engineer (salary) or a average performing senior (total comp)
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by p1esk on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:07PM (#16881433)
Why did you drop out of grad school?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by bobdole1234 on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:17PM (#16881464)
I think he said "$300k".
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by diN0bot on Friday April 20, 2018 @03:53AM (#16882932)
> I think she said "$300k".

I laughed at the joke and upvoted you.

And I frowned at the downvotes for the other comments. Friends, why do we turn into insecure conservative bullies when it comes to femininity? Why accept the implicit normalizing and othering of last century's favorite pronouns?

Let's subvert the status quo!

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by ericjang on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:50PM (#16881584)
maybe she/he
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by belorn on Friday April 20, 2018 @05:44AM (#16883456)
I have always found that people defaults to themselves when they don't know the gender and there is little or no clues for it.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by schrijver on Friday April 20, 2018 @03:27AM (#16882826)
singular they! (sorry for the downvotes)
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by 2_listerine_pls on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:40AM (#16882188)
or it
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by bonniemuffin on Thursday April 19, 2018 @10:37PM (#16881771)
More importantly, why did I bother to finish grad school?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by TeMPOraL on Friday April 20, 2018 @01:17AM (#16882311)
To not have situations like I did.

I've almost done my masters - I finished all the courses, but did not submit my graduate thesis in time - so I have what we call "absolutorium", i.e. finished the program without pursuing a degree. The other day, a friend from my alma mater wanted me to come and do a semester of programming classes as an "industry consultant". It was all arranged properly and I was getting ready with my lectures when, few weeks before I was supposed to give the first one, I became a political point in inter-faculty negotiations. People from one of the other faculties argued it's disrespectful to allow someone with mere BSc to teach students. Ultimately, my faculty had to let me go.

So yeah, that's the kind of bullshit that having an academic title may help you navigate. Whether or not it is worth the effort to get one is arguable, though.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by endymi0n on Friday April 20, 2018 @04:30AM (#16883100)
To be honest, the academic field is about the only field in which it perfectly makes sense to finish a degree, I mean, what else can you boast with if you have none?

The other three reasons are visa (proof of "ability"), wanting to work in government (if you really, really want that) or early-stage startups that need Ivy-League credentials for their investors, because they don't have anything else to offer.

Other than that, as a software engineer in the private industry, nobody will care about any of your degrees.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by mygo on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:24PM (#16886104)
> I mean, what else can you boast with if you have none?

Your actual contributions to the field.

of which, comp sci is one of the few fields where you don’t need an academic degree to have significant contributions to the field

But I read the other day about a biologist who just recently made a major contribution to graph theory, as an amateur mathematician?

He can come speak at all of my cookouts.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by prance on Friday April 20, 2018 @06:56AM (#16883749)
Well, I care, to some extent. Like many other things, it can be used as a filter. At the least, lacking other demonstrable evidence (such as open source or industry experience which can be confirmed by referrals), a finished master or PhD shows that someone is able to finish a non-trivial project.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by BeetleB on Friday April 20, 2018 @02:12PM (#16887109)
I have a friend who's been in grad school a decade (although to be fair he had to take several breaks for family issues - so let's say 7-8 years).

I don't think he's published a paper as a first author. He's about to now, but his advisor is not happy with it and has made it clear his work on that paper is not sufficient. His advisor is sending all sorts of signals that he has given up on him - he often ignores his emails for requests to meet, etc. And he's expressed displeasure about his progress several times. The University will require his advisor's signature every semester because he has gone beyond the university's deadlines for a PhD.

He's a very smart guy and is good at software (his PhD is not CS, though). He can get a good job with a decent (or even top) company. He is almost 40 years old. Oh, and on top of all that, given how his research is going, there's a good chance no one will hire him for his research work even if he gets a PhD.

I asked him "Why not quit and get a job?"

Him: "Man, I put so much time into it and I'll feel all that time would have gone to waste. And please don't talk to me about sunk cost!"

Me: "Did you every consider that you will finish the PhD, and then end up asking yourself why you wasted so much time pursuing it?"

I've been in his shoes, and I quit my PhD as well (although spent a few years less than he did in school). Then I went to industry and saw the types of jobs I would have gotten if I had completed. Although they paid better, I would have hated those jobs. As for the time I spent in grad school? How could it possibly be a waste? I went because I had a passion for the topic, and I learned a lot while there. You don't lose all that knowledge and experience when you quit.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by p1esk on Friday April 20, 2018 @05:01PM (#16888405)
Although they paid better, I would have hated those jobs

Why?

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by BeetleB on Friday April 20, 2018 @05:34PM (#16888615)
Long work hours and abusive environment.

Furthermore, it's a fairly specialized field - only a few companies in the US (or heck, the world) hire such people. So you can't just up and leave.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by p1esk on Friday April 20, 2018 @01:04AM (#16882278)
If you could go back in time would you drop out?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by bonniemuffin on Monday April 23, 2018 @10:35PM (#16909443)
In a hypothetical universe, I could've done a stats/cs double major in undergrad and dropped out of grad school after a year or two to go into data science, but in the real universe, data science wasn't a thing anyone in south louisiana had heard of in 2005, so I needed 10 years of phd+postdoc to find my way to it.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by matte_black on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:35AM (#16882175)
If you drop out of grad school is there a way to prove you were ever actually even in grad school? Or can anyone say they were in grad school but just didn’t finish?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by gaius on Friday April 20, 2018 @05:26AM (#16883380)
There is something I see on LinkedIn from people I happen to know never graduated: they list the years they were at university and their subject. It’s not technically lying, and most people never notice.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by najra on Friday April 20, 2018 @08:09AM (#16884078)
would also be weird to omit the years entirely tho, right?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by gaius on Friday April 20, 2018 @08:34AM (#16884225)
Not really, if they were right at the beginning of your career - quite normal for people to trim their CVs like that, esp. these days.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by najra on Friday April 20, 2018 @09:27AM (#16884546)
that makes sense, just be weird if you dont finish your masters to have you bachelor, then a few years of nothing, and then your first job. I'd put the master course there too, but perhaps include a note that you didn't graduate?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by gaius on Friday April 20, 2018 @09:48AM (#16884716)
People do all sort of weird stuff on LinkedIn, I take it all with a pinch of salt!
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by matte_black on Friday April 20, 2018 @10:43AM (#16885149)
I’m pretty close to just listing that I was a Stanford graduate and seeing how it affects my LinkedIn profile. Seems like no one would really bother to check anything anyway.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by icelancer on Friday April 20, 2018 @02:19AM (#16882540)
Huh? Just get your transcripts.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by s0rce on Thursday April 19, 2018 @10:57PM (#16881853)
exactly.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by make3 on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:50AM (#16882218)
were you doing your master's or your phd when you dropped out. likely phd but just curious
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by 1024core on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:54AM (#16882237)
> and dropped out of grad school.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by skj on Friday April 20, 2018 @08:25AM (#16884171)
Both masters and PhD students attend grad school to get their degree, so this isn't really disambiguating.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by nightski on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:35PM (#16881529)
Outside of the valley I imagine this is much different.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by throwawaymath on Thursday April 19, 2018 @10:02PM (#16881617)
Same in NYC and Boston.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by make3 on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:51AM (#16882225)
and Seattle
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by nightski on Friday April 20, 2018 @10:58AM (#16885283)
Pretty much the next 3 most expensive cities in the U.S. Check.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by jseliger on Thursday April 19, 2018 @06:39PM (#16880798)
Also, the "nonprofit" part is less relevant than many assume. Nonprofits are more like businesses than most people realize: http://seliger.com/2012/09/02/why-nonprofits-are-more-like-b...
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by ramenmeal on Thursday April 19, 2018 @07:15PM (#16880988)
Actually I'd say its relevant for the article. As it states, non-profits can't give out stock, so the salaries are larger.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by johnhenry on Thursday April 19, 2018 @06:59PM (#16880909)
> Because nonprofits, like other businesses, ...

Or, more accurately, non-profits are businesses.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by 7figures on Thursday April 19, 2018 @10:04PM (#16881627)
You have to actually be good at it, but I'm not famous, and I make over seven figures annually as an AI researcher at one of the big companies.

True talent is extremely rare as well as lucrative. That said, I'm glad I turned down openAI's offer of only $200K. Yikes. Ilya is better than I am, but not 10x better.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by dibstern on Friday April 20, 2018 @08:26AM (#16884176)
Can you give indicators of how good you are? Just to help people understand what ‘good’ and sill getting 1M+ actually means
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by make3 on Thursday April 19, 2018 @06:27PM (#16880724)
They say that OpenAI are forced to disclose the salaries. Does anyone have a link to the source, to the document with the disclosed salaries? I'd be curious to see the range.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by heyoni on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:05PM (#16881426)
On their tax returns, they have to name I think the 15 top earners' salaries as well as some key positions.

You can look this up for just about any non-profit, including most if not all ivy leagues.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by gwern on Thursday April 19, 2018 @06:46PM (#16880834)
See my comment.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by 2spicy_thrwaway on Friday April 20, 2018 @02:01AM (#16882461)
No grad school, no papers, 7ish years work experience, 260k base + 100k-ish stock
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by mehrdadn on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:16PM (#16881458)
I think the biggest surprise is that this is happening at nonprofits?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by tomrod on Thursday April 19, 2018 @07:14PM (#16880983)
From what I've seen, away from the coasts between $70k - $100k.

PhD adds about 25k-40k to the figure, depending on industry.

Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by shams93 on Friday April 20, 2018 @03:43AM (#16882900)
Yeah I make 100k and live in Los Angeles sometimes I can't eat food I work remote so my coworkers outside cifornia don't have it too bad. But despite 30 years of experience I'm hardly worth enough to this society to let me eat food or have a roof over my head. 100k is about average for LA but at one point I had a job that paid me only 45k with no benefits demanding I generate a sentiment analysis system I literally had to stop eating to make my rent on that low pay. But in LA engineers are treated like worse than dogs, we have no social currency and if you work for an LA company they expect 140 hours for 40 hours pay far below market average.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by sjg007 on Friday April 20, 2018 @09:06AM (#16884408)
You should be able to get more but it would probably require moving to Riot, Snap or Google. You would want multiple offers etc... I would go the personal network approach if possible with 30 years experience.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by iagovar on Friday April 20, 2018 @10:53AM (#16885241)
When I read comments like yours I wonder why don't you people move of of LA. I'm not in the US so maybe I'm missing something.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by tomrod on Friday April 20, 2018 @01:54PM (#16886942)
Vote with your feet. You're worth more, relatively, than that.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by moresalarydata on Thursday April 19, 2018 @08:17PM (#16881238)
Counterpoint: I'm a data scientist in the Midwest with a non-CS bachelor's degree, earning $125k base.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by 773js on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:49AM (#16882215)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but Research Scientist in AI and Data Scientist are completely different jobs.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by tomrod on Friday April 20, 2018 @01:10AM (#16882294)
Not always.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by heyoni on Thursday April 19, 2018 @09:03PM (#16881414)
Do bonuses make that much of a difference in data science?
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by tomrod on Friday April 20, 2018 @01:12AM (#16882299)
My post was base. My observation is existence and size of bonus depends critically on industry.
Re:A.I. Researchers Are Making More Than $1M, Even at a Nonp... by sndean on Thursday April 19, 2018 @07:27PM (#16881051)
That's pretty consistent with what I've been told, for me (PhD, East coast, with essentially no experience): ~120k