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Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Eurongreyjoy on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:18AM (#16857967)
I'm curious as to why the motivation now? The West has been placing sanction on North Korea for years with seemingly no effect.

I wonder what role, if any China played in brokering this deal? This is only a report of what is expected to happen at the summit, so we will see if Kim Jong Un will follow through, since his military presence and proximity to South Korea and Seoul has been his best bartering chip.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by rorykoehler on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:56AM (#16858298)
It looked like they have been building up to this for years. Swiss educated Kim Jong Un came to power, dealt with his internal issues to gain complete control, developed the nuclear weapons capabilities to be taken seriously internationally and then reaches out to negotiate.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by donatj on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:06AM (#16858392)
My thoughts exactly. Finding a way out of the inherited war without looking weak to your people is a difficult dance.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by crdoconnor on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:38AM (#16858720)
North Korea have been trying to engage in talks for years. The US and South Korea have taken the approach that North Korea needs to give concessions - in the form of demilitarisation - before talks begin. Now they don't.

North Korea (quite astutely) pointed out that if they did as they were told, like Libya, they'd end up like Libya. They don't want to end up like Libya.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by lambdadmitry on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @01:44PM (#16869314)
Arguably citizens of Libya have it better than citizens of North Korea (or Syria for that matter)
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by paradite on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:07AM (#16859001)
Here is a very interesting comment on this topic from a year ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14236146

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by boomboomsubban on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:29AM (#16858624)
Moon Jae-in ran on the platform of increasing diplomatic ties to North Korea, and the negotiations surrounding the Olympics saw a strengthening bond between the two countries.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by AndyMcConachie on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:36AM (#16858116)
Go read some stuff from Tim Shorrock.

https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/946820801487147009

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Meegul on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:59AM (#16858328)
A few reasons. The liberals are in power in South Korea, and they have a much more friendly North Korea strategy. Couple that with the North Koreans' recent development of ICBMs and a hostile strategy seems less desirable. The US certainly doesn't want a good relationship with North Korea, but without a South Korean government supporting their policy, and with an increased threat from the North, there's not much we can do.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxerickson on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:43AM (#16858177)
North Korea has become a nuclear power.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Eurongreyjoy on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:53AM (#16858274)
Do we think that their ballistic missiles are as capable as they portray in their state run media?

As far as I know, most military strategists doubt the missiles can actually reach US mainland.

As for South Korea, they have always been close enough to suffer catastrophic damages by traditional non-nuclear action, so why are they willing to come to the table now?

Unless they are preemptively trying to avoid retaliation on their own soil because of a US - led strike on North Korea.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by barkingcat on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:14AM (#16858456)
In the grand scheme of things, whether they are "as capable" doesn't really matter.

If a nuke goes into Hawaii, does that matter psychologically if it doesn't reach US Mainland?

All they need is a credible threat of force. That's why nukes are a separate category from conventional explosive tipped ballistic missiles or cruise missiles.

A dirty nuclear strike can render a place uninhabitable for the next 100 years. Imagine wiping Hawaii off the US vacation list for a century.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Fjolsvith on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @08:40AM (#16866876)
> Imagine wiping Hawaii off the US vacation list for a century.

Yeah, and the last time we suffered an attack at Hawaii, we beat their door down. I'm 49 years old but I would re-enlist to help with that kind of revenge.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Brockenstein on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:37AM (#16858707)
Yeah, and the current status quo isn't permanent. It's only a matter of time before their missiles improve enough. Whether it's one year or ten years, it's going to happen. It can't not happen.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Brockenstein on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:33AM (#16858673)
It's only a matter of time before their missiles do get good enough. They know it, we know it, everyone knows it. And its not going to do much good to wait until that day comes.

>As for South Korea, they have always been close enough to suffer catastrophic damages by traditional non-nuclear action, so why are they willing to come to the table now?

Just because that's been a risk they've lived with for 65 years doesn't mean they're happy or willing to suffer it. There's been multiple efforts over decades to try and resolve the relationship with the North and South, this isn't the first time or first attempt or anything. It's been a big issue in Korea for a long time.

>Unless they are preemptively trying to avoid retaliation on their own soil because of a US - led strike on North Korea.

Ideally. War is bad. It's bad for people. It's bad for economies. And look at it this way. If there was a problem in the U.S., does the U.S. want to solve their own problems or would they prefer China to step in and take care of it for them? Most countries want to solve their own problems and manage their own affairs if they can. National pride and such.

Yeah, if fighting broke out between North and South Korea, they'll take our help because winning is what matters. But if they can negotiate their own peace and own reconciliation that leave the U.S. on the bench, they'll be perfectly happy to do that.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxerickson on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:01AM (#16858349)
I'm no international relations expert. Still, I think even a modest chance of a catastrophic attack against US civilians becomes a big factor.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by swebs on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:46AM (#16858209)
It has been since 2006.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxerickson on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:47AM (#16858221)
Okay, but they got their ballistic missiles working just in recent months.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by ianhawes on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:29AM (#16858054)
Donald J. Trump.

I would imagine this is not a popular opinion here, but he had the entire world convinced he would use nuclear weapons against North Korea. That has to have some effect on the North Korean regime.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxxxxx on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:39AM (#16858142)
I think he did the right thing by offering a meeting with Kim Jon Un. And he was the only one able to do it. If Obama had done this the Republicans would have thrown a total fit.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by north_east_dev on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:41AM (#16858164)
It's like that old Vulcan proverb "Only Nixon could go to China."
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by rainbowmverse on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:48AM (#16858817)
I like the original Klingon version: "Only Picard could go to Qo'noS."
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by simonh on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:53AM (#16858272)
As they have over the Iran deal.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by cdelsolar on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:01AM (#16858346)
Which he did, and they did.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by swebs on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:44AM (#16858189)
>If Obama had done this the Republicans would have thrown a total fit.

Let's please not turn this thread into /r/politics

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by simonh on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:55AM (#16858290)
Ideally we should be able to discuss political issues reasonably, precisely because we are not /r/politics.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxxxxx on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:46AM (#16858203)
I think I stated an obvious fact.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by sho on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:00AM (#16858335)
That category of statement cannot be a fact; it's your opinion. It might be true, it might even be obviously true, but it's not a "fact".
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Brockenstein on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:41AM (#16858745)
While I understand the sentiment behind your statement. I would have bet every penny I have that the republicans would have thrown a fit and I'd be retired at 36. It's about as safe a bet as the Sun rises in the east. But only because republicans pitched a fit about anything Obama had a hand in. It was predictability as constant as the Northern star.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by sho on Wednesday April 18, 2018 @02:40AM (#16865177)
Well naturally I agree with you. But words are important.

It's like if I state that The Beatles have, in total, more musical merit than Katy Perry. Well, that seems totally obvious too and one would be hard-pressed to find any sane adult who would disagree. Nonetheless it's not a "fact".

Maybe I'm being a pedant but these little things annoy me. Words have meanings, those meanings are important. Anyway, I made my point too many times over already so I'll leave it :P

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Jtsummers on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:33AM (#16858679)
https://www.vox.com/2018/3/9/17100880/north-korea-republican...

Conservatives saying exactly what they did (condemn Obama) when he offered essentially the same thing as Trump has (with regard to talking with North Korea sans preconditions).

Fact, not opinion.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxxxxx on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:02AM (#16858353)
What do you think would have happened if Obama had offered talks with North Korea?
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by sho on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:25AM (#16858585)
That is not my point. My point is that statements that rely on judgement and include phrases like "I think..." or "you think..." have nothing to do with facts.

Consult a dictionary if confusion persists.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxxxxx on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:34AM (#16858688)
How about "based on my observation of politics over the last few years I believe that if Obama had offered talks with North Korea he would have faced strong opposition from Republican politician in Congress.". Better?
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by emaginniss on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:50AM (#16858836)
Speculation is never fact
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by wwweston on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @11:29AM (#16859222)
Well, I suppose the moral of the story is that if you want to be seen as the only actor able to address a specific issue, the most effective tack is ruthlessly depict the motives of the opposing actors as corrupt and thoroughly tribalize it until you have a faction that will distrust any effort others make regardless of its merits.

Then you're the only one that can make an effort to solve the problem. Neat.

Maybe someone else besides Nixon could totally have done what he did diplomatically?

> If Obama had done this the Republicans would have thrown a total fit.

It's an interesting exercise to consider what specific hypotheses for which the conditional didn't evaluate true.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by HenryBemis on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:43AM (#16858182)
If USA would use nukes against NK, (which borders China AND Russia) I have the feeling that the next nukes would have gone off to NY, or CA (or somewhere equally painful for the USA).

Horror/WW3 scenarios apart, it's most likely that USA-originated sanctions have absolutely nothing to do with this, as if Russia and China want to support the continuation of NK-regime, there is no way to force them to stop.

I'd say that pressure from Russia and China are pushing for the permanent resolution of this conflict. It's a tiny/annoying thorn in their sides, and sooner or later they will remove it.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by AndyMcConachie on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:04AM (#16858373)
I think you need to understand this kind of blustering makes the people of South Korea more afraid of the USA. It's not as if the history of the USA in S Korea is all roses and honeydew.

South Koreans don't want to be in a constant state of war anymore and they don't want to be occupied by US troops. My feeling is that most South Koreans want a merge like West Germans wanted to merge with E Germans. Look at some of the policies and statements made by their new President Moon, whom was partly elected on a policy of reunification.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by dba7dba on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:52AM (#16858849)
I disagree.

Is UK occupied by US forces? Germany? Eastern EU nations? Japan?

And let's not kid ourselves on why Moon was elected. He was in large part elected because of strong disgust (justified) people felt against the previous impeached president.

Moon was elected with 40% of the votes.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by maxxxxx on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @03:16PM (#16861399)
I was in Germany during the Reagan years and a lot of people were very nervous about him and the aggressive way he talked when he came in. It got better once he developed a good working relationship with Gorbachev.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by jasonlotito on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:45AM (#16858194)
> I'm curious as to why the motivation now?

North Korea has nuclear weapons.

That is the difference. Some might suggest it's President Trump, but the reality is, he's only made it worse for the US. North Korea can negotiate without the US because of the weapons, and Trump's push against China and reckless and weak foreign policy (see the latest Russia sanctions going up in flames) makes him a non-actor. China will take this opportunity when the US is at it's weakest to help solidify its hold in Asia, and is already working to help the Koreas. With us backing out of the TPP and now signaling our intent to join back in, this puts us at a severe disadvantage in the region.

As for North Korea, they see a way to join the rest of the world with a major ally (China) who will in effect have the most influence in the region.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by r00fus on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:10AM (#16858426)
When did we signal back in to the TPP!?
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by Jtsummers on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:17AM (#16858493)
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by jasonlotito on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:17AM (#16858490)
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by HenryBemis on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:52AM (#16858257)
If becoming a real threat to the USA is the ticket to long-lasting Peace, then African countries are doomed :(

USA has a steady Foreign Affairs strategy, that doesn't change every time the president changes. Some failed countries (e.g. Greece should learn about this continuation of Policy).

Trump is the twitter guy that acts like a teenager on Redbull. I do believe that Sweden, China, USA, Russia, and others, work really hard behind the scenes to make things happen. Games will of course be played (each country to serve its own agenda) but I don't believe there is any country on this planet that wants to press the Red Button (or Τurn the Κey or whatever)

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by swebs on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:41AM (#16858161)
North Korea proposed a peace treaty as far back as 2016, but the Obama administration rejected it for not addressing denuclearization. Now that Trump has been putting real military pressure on them, I think they're more willing to give up their nuclear arsenal.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-nuclear/u-s-re...

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by realusername on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @09:58AM (#16858317)
North Korea will never abandon nuclear power whatever they say publicly, it's their only asset to negotiate treaties and their best asset against the US military. They will just use this fake "denuclearization" to negociate for the removal of the US military in South Korea.
Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:02AM (#16858355)
Indeed, for a small country, nuclear weapons (and the ability to deliver them abroad) appear to presently be the only way to ensure your country doesn't get mowed over by one of the larger powers.

This is the downside to Mutually Assured Destruction: Everyone not currently a part of it wants nukes so they can be a part of it.

Re:North and South Korea reportedly set to announce official... by simonh on Tuesday April 17, 2018 @10:08AM (#16858406)
There's nothing fundamentally new about the west's approach to NK. They are coming to the table because finally China started properly turning the screws on them last year with sanctions on steel, coal, seafood and even clothing. NK had enjoyed a bit of an economic summer for the last 5 years, but the Chinese clamp down is biting hard, hence Kim's recent trip to Beijing.