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Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by fao_ on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:44PM (#16777734)
> Also at that age the options to change one's life are pretty limited compared to being in your 20s.

A second cousin of mine in his 40s, 50s works at a factory. He did a classics course through the Open University. He still works at the factory, because he likes the work, but he was more than able to do the course, and he felt that he was more prepared for the coursework at that age than if he had done it earlier.

For most people, the options are still there, you're just less likely to see them as an option. Never underestimate your potential later in life. As long as you maintain your levels of exercise and take care of your body, you are on average just as capable to change careers as you were when you were twenty.

As a secondary source, there was recently an Ask Hacker News thread of people who had started their programming careers in their fifties, I sadly cannot find the like :c

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by maxxxxx on Friday April 06, 2018 @05:46PM (#16777755)
" you are on average just as capable to change careers as you were when you were twenty."

Maybe you are capable but the job market is much less welcoming in your 50s compared to being in your 20s especially if you are trying to get into something new. You certainly can learn new things though. No doubt.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by jacquesm on Friday April 06, 2018 @07:13PM (#16778306)
The job market is never very welcoming there is always going to be a lot of competition, either from peers or from abroad.

I stopped being employable somewhere in my early 20's and I still think that is the best thing that happened to me. It made me think of life not in terms of jobs but in terms of capabilities. You can learn new things and you can pick up new marketable skills and change careers. I did it when I was 42, I see no reason why it could not be done at 50 or older. In fact I know a couple of nice examples of people older than 50 that made radical (and lucrative) career changes.

It's really up to you, your appetite for risk and how much energy you can muster. At 50+ you probably have an advantage over 20 year olds trying to do the same except for the energy factor.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by amorphid on Saturday April 07, 2018 @03:46AM (#16779834)
I transitioned from technical recruiting to software development at age 40.
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by maxxxxx on Friday April 06, 2018 @07:26PM (#16778396)
Can you be more specific what this change was?
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by jacquesm on Friday April 06, 2018 @07:33PM (#16778434)
I used to be a programmer, decided after burning out that I did not feel like chasing tech stacks for the next two decades and recycled my knowledge to set up a service for venture capital. I've been doing this for a decade now and it is slowly taking off. In a nutshell, me and my little band of friends help VCs to evaluate the companies they have the option to invest in. Our 'work product' is a report, which it takes about a week to put together.

There were many other options to choose from this one I had a bit of a taste from by accident and I decided to see where it would lead. In the meantime I'm firing off all kinds of crazy projects whenever I have some spare time (less so every year due to the service company doubling in size year over year for the last 5 years or so).

It makes good money too, and the customers I have are a lot more appreciative than any of the start-ups (b2c) customers that I had. Also there is enough time left over for a life rather than to be in the rat race all the time. All in all it suits me well, I should have probably done it earlier but apparently I had to run into the wall first before I got the message. I still code, but only when it suits me and I have fun doing it.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by jtrtoo on Friday April 06, 2018 @08:41PM (#16778738)
Do you have website describing this work? I poked around a bit and found your blog, but not one specifically describing your work for VCs.

--A fellow techie that has done a wide variety of freelancing and consulting the past decade or so; your transition comment caught my eye...

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by jacquesm on Friday April 06, 2018 @08:48PM (#16778770)
Yes, but I don't like to advertise on HN. If you want you can mail me.

There are two articles on the blog regarding this:

https://jacquesmattheij.com/due-diligence-survival-guide

https://jacquesmattheij.com/due-diligence-survival-guide-par...

Those are already more than 6 years old but they aged quite well.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by maroonblazer on Friday April 06, 2018 @11:47PM (#16779276)
Good articles. If you're someone who is not selling a business but simply running a project your "Some Tips" can be useful to smaller scale projects that have run into trouble. Replace "business" and "company" with "project". Replace "due diligence" with "someone higher up is suddenly interested in what's actually going on":

>Know your business (from a legal, technical and financial point of view)

>If there is bad news get it out of the way as soon as possible, well before the due diligence process starts

>Be truthful and honest

>Don’t fall into the trap of ‘dressing up’ the company, it will come back to bite you during due diligence

>Make sure that those that talk to the people doing due diligence know their stuff to avoid miscommunication

It's surprising to me how few projects - even ones going well - can meet these criteria with a high degree of fidelity.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by ams6110 on Friday April 06, 2018 @08:32PM (#16778700)
I think there is always a market for someone with demonstrated competency an an in-demand skill.

I've never had a problem getting a job in tech. Last time I was hired was in my late 40s; I'm now early 50s.

I don't work the 50, 60 hour weeks that I used to when I was younger. So if that is what someone is looking for in a candidate I can see why an older person might get passed over.

But I accomplish more in 20 hours now than I did in 60 hours when I was 25.

The kind of jobs I would want, would not hesitate to hire a 50 year old. At least in my experience.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by nikanj on Saturday April 07, 2018 @12:02AM (#16779303)
You’d be surprised how many companies choose “culture fit” over skills.
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by pleasecalllater on Saturday April 07, 2018 @03:29AM (#16779792)
I'm almost 40, and I have problems with getting through the recruiters wall. They usually tell me two things: "the company is looking for someone more culturally fit (younger)" or "you are almost 40, and you still are not at manager". The thing is I want to be a programmer :)

So looking for a job is harder, but when I finally get one, it's funny to work with those young people, who usually have no idea of many things. Example from this week: when you connect to 127.0.0.1 from your machine, it's not connecting you to the testing server.

I think that if you are "old" and you are looking for a job, just don't give up, and ignore all those "young" companies.

Btw, I was always wondering what they will do in 10 years, when all those "young" people will be "too old for them to hire". Will they fire them?

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by ozim on Saturday April 07, 2018 @05:29AM (#16780053)
Nope all those young guys after 2 years will move somewhere else for better salary. Then they will recruit new young ones.

Seems like long term employees are burden. They get old, sick, know their rights. Maybe even start having demands and don't just leave when those are not met making them grumpy.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by fao_ on Monday April 09, 2018 @06:57AM (#16791920)
> Nope all those young guys after 2 years will move somewhere else for better salary. Then they will recruit new young ones.

Which tells you about how well the code is maintained, at the very least.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by devonkim on Saturday April 07, 2018 @08:07AM (#16780378)
It bothers me that so many otherwise intelligent managers will opt for cheaper labor with higher turnover and oftentimes worse efficiency.... to save money. I just don’t understand how all the micro-inefficiencies or lack of experience can be made up for with maybe another 10 - 15 hours / week. Maybe if a lot of your technical problems are due to nobody young or old having deep knowledge (read: new language and platform) but we all know that new stuff doesn’t skip a generation of knowledge - it’s built on the foundations of what works previously and tries to throw away what is not relevant anymore.

I can understand hiring simply smarter people though in lieu of experience. It’s just that so many things I’ve lost efficiency on would not have been improved with mere smarts, so only raw, direct experience could ever get past it.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by psyc on Saturday April 07, 2018 @09:43AM (#16780667)
I've seen a pattern that makes this self-fulfilling. The normal mix of junior/mid/seniors, plus the rush to market, creates a ton of paralyzing tech debt. Then the tech debt itself levels the playing field, so that the seniors actually are only marginally more productive than the juniors.
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by JoeAltmaier on Saturday April 07, 2018 @09:45AM (#16780673)
Worse, senior folks have to mentor new folks because they are the experts. Then they have to fix the horrible snafus because only they can. They stop do interesting development entirely as these other duties take over their lives. Then there's turnover and they do it all again until they burn out and leave. Leaving only junior folks and a dumpster fire.

And don't get started on how 'agile' fuels this! In a constant panic mode, there's only ever sprints for small fixes and isolated features. Never time to address what's really wrong in a systematic way. So the flames burn higher...

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by ryandrake on Saturday April 07, 2018 @12:11PM (#16781342)
This is one of the reasons why I pretty much moved to only writing code at home as a hobby as I’ve aged. In “professional” programming it’s always this insane race to puke out as many half working features as fast as possible no matter what the code ends up looking like. The craftsmanship is gone. The focus on quality and correctness is gone. The opportunity to refactor or redo at will is missing. On my hobby projects, I can take my time. I can have 100% test coverage if I want. I can compile cleanly with -Wpedantic if I want. I can move whole modules around if I think it’s best. No need to deal with forced collaboration, change control bureaucracy, or the constant drumbeat of ship ship ship!

The current hiring preferences out there are a perfect fit for the industry’s insane “ship crap as fast as possible” product preferences.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by psyc on Saturday April 07, 2018 @12:41PM (#16781477)
I've done exactly the same, for exactly the same reasons. Now I love programming again.
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by airfreak on Sunday April 08, 2018 @07:05AM (#16785584)
My antidote to this has been to craft a reputation for doing high quality work with good documentation. I don't let myself get pushed around now with this crap. If I want to spend more time on a feature, because of refactoring, writing some tests or whatever, I just do it. I don't pay attention to the sprint deadline but focus on quality work. I often miss the sprint deadline and make no effort to rush like the rest seem to do.

The result has worked out really well. Managers have quit hassling me about time and I get given the more complex and interesting work. People know I work hard and care about what I produce, if they have to wait they have to wait. I don't ask permission to write the tests I want, or spend a couple of days refactoring if that needs done.

Basically I am the professional coder, not the project managers, so I don't let them dictate how the software gets made. You just need to make sure you don't take it too far and too gratuitous refactoring work. Your reputation is critical for this approach to work.

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by dennis_jeeves on Saturday April 07, 2018 @07:25AM (#16780300)
ams6110 , can you please list those companies/organizations, which in your opinion, do not hesitate to hire older techies? As others pointed out your experience is an exception than a norm.
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by bradknowles on Saturday April 07, 2018 @11:18PM (#16784437)
Whole Foods is one company with a fair amount of older people. Experience seems to have some value there. Our biggest problem currently is finding people who actually have real experience doing the things we need to do. Recruiters provide plenty of resumes, but there isn’t any real meat there.
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by chrisweekly on Friday April 06, 2018 @06:45PM (#16778144)
Trying to get a traditional employer to hire you is a radically different proposition than entrepreneurship -- which holds vastly more appeal for older people, who are possibly wiser, and probably more financially secure, than their younger selves.
Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by latexr on Saturday April 07, 2018 @02:03PM (#16781859)
> As a secondary source, there was recently an Ask Hacker News thread of people who had started their programming careers in their fifties, I sadly cannot find the like :c

At first I though you might be mentioning the “thank you” post[1], but that developer is in their thirties. A bit of searching led me to another post[2], but from 2015, so it may not be the same you were thinking about.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16640599

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9497721

Re:Want to Be Happy? Think Like an Old Person (2017) by stevedonovan on Saturday April 07, 2018 @04:54AM (#16779978)
My father did his BA at 70 from the Open University. Up to that point I think he was simply too restless to settle down to study.