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Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by seanwilson on Thursday April 05, 2018 @01:36AM (#16762088)
> I tried explaining my 20 year old cousin about FB. Her constant argument was "I don't share anything private on FB". She checks in on FB everywhere she goes. Posts her pics all the time. I could not instill any sense of concern for privacy.

If she's happy with this level of privacy though, what's the problem? Maybe she does fully understand the implications but has a different value system to you?

I feel that when people on this site are talking about Facebook, there's this assumption their friends using Facebook are failing to understand what Facebook does in the background and if they could somehow get them to understand their friends would all leave. People can be fully aware of what Facebook is and simply choose a different balance between privacy and convenience to what you prefer.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by quanticle on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:25AM (#16762655)
>If she's happy with this level of privacy though, what's the problem?

The problem is that it's not just her privacy she's violating, but the privacy of everyone else, including OP, whose photos get shared by said cousin.

When I got back from a trip I took abroad with my family earlier this year, my friends mentioned that they'd seen the photos that "I" had posted to Facebook. Except... I hadn't posted any photos to Facebook. I have a Facebook account, but I deliberately have a very minimal presence on it. What my friends were seeing was the photos that my mother had posted, and which I had been tagged in. My privacy was violated by someone else's inability to understand Facebook's privacy settings.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by criley2 on Thursday April 05, 2018 @10:09AM (#16765019)
"When I got back from a trip I took abroad with my family earlier this year, my friends mentioned that they'd seen the photos that "I" had posted to Facebook. Except... I hadn't posted any photos to Facebook. I have a Facebook account, but I deliberately have a very minimal presence on it. What my friends were seeing was the photos that my mother had posted, and which I had been tagged in. My privacy was violated by someone else's inability to understand Facebook's privacy settings."

Ironically, it was your OWN inability to understand Facebook's privacy settings.

Go to Settings -> Click " Timeline and Tagging Settings" -> Edit " Who can add things to my timeline? " section : " Review posts that friends tag you in before they appear on your Timeline?" make " Enabled "

There, you will never be tagged in another photo or post, and you now have a review process for anyone who attempts those things, so you can manually up or down those things.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by raquo on Thursday April 05, 2018 @01:25PM (#16766905)
You can't actually opt out of tagging anymore, you can only opt out of tags appearing on your timeline, but people can still see the photos and see that you are tagged in them.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by quadyeast on Thursday April 05, 2018 @11:07AM (#16765569)
No, this is FB's fault. This should be opt-in.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by KC8ZKF on Thursday April 05, 2018 @12:52PM (#16766578)
So you have to join Facebook in order to not be tagged on Facebook?
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by romwell on Thursday April 05, 2018 @06:30PM (#16769355)
The tags work in the way OP described only if you are already a user.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by MartinCron on Thursday April 05, 2018 @10:17AM (#16765087)
I am reminded of a basic fact: You can’t opt-out of other people talking about you online.

Keeping people from tagging you is pretty close, though.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by auxbuss on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:49AM (#16762769)
This is a key point that folk are genuinely surprised by when I explain it to them. It's kind of a reverse herd immunity. (I'm sure there's a better analogy.)
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by keketi on Thursday April 05, 2018 @05:21AM (#16763203)
> reverse herd immunity (I'm sure there's a better analogy.)

Asymptomatic carrier.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by mieseratte on Thursday April 05, 2018 @07:21AM (#16763745)
> Asymptomatic carrier.

An asymptomatic carrier is one who exhibits no symptoms of the illness but is carrier who can infect others. I don't believe that is the right analogy here.

With herd immunity you have a group with a large rate of participation, which effectively immunizes those that haven't been.

Facebook is the opposite in that you may not be "infected" but if everyone around you is "infected" you might as well be, because Facebook will piece together your information based on what your friends make available.

Plague almost starts to sound like a better analogy...

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by seanwilson on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:52AM (#16762781)
Turn on the feature to hide photos you're tagged in and tell people you know they're not to show photos of you to other people then? Or tell people not to take photos of you?

If Facebook didn't exist, people would still show photos to people in other ways. If someone takes your photo they're more than likely going to show it to somebody so I would assume a low level of privacy by default.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by davnicwil on Thursday April 05, 2018 @04:54AM (#16763074)
> People would still show photos to people in other ways.

I suspect this is not the issue or what the parent means by privacy.

Rather, they probably mean specifically that they don't want their metadata enriched photos being made available, without their explicit knowledge or consent, to Facebook the company (and therefore also indirectly to any number of other companies / advertisers).

If Facebook didn't exist, people certainly wouldn't do that! That's purely an unavoidable side effect of Facebook's current business model.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by mayniac on Thursday April 05, 2018 @05:22AM (#16763207)
>Turn on the feature to hide photos you're tagged in and tell people you know they're not to show photos of you to other people then?

That does protect you to some level. But throw in machine learning with image processing and simple metadata extraction and while your friends might not see the photo, Facebook can potentially figure out if you're in the photo whether or not you've been tagged, where the photo was taken, what camera the photo was taken with, what mood you're in, who's with you, what clothes you're wearing etc etc. And then they'll sell that data without ever telling you.

I have a bigger issue with that happening than I have issues with friends seeing photos I may not have wanted to posted myself, to be honest.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by mulander on Thursday April 05, 2018 @04:15AM (#16762886)
> Turn on the feature to hide photos you're tagged in

And how should I do that if I don't have a Facebook account? How do I tell Facebook to not steal my phone number and texts from phones of my friends?

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by seanwilson on Thursday April 05, 2018 @04:38AM (#16763001)
> How do I tell Facebook to not steal my phone number and texts from phones of my friends?

https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/fact-check-your-call-an...

"Call and text history logging is part of an opt-in feature for people using Messenger or Facebook Lite on Android. ... This feature does not collect the content of your calls or text messages"

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by barrkel on Thursday April 05, 2018 @09:49AM (#16764853)
So, to reiterate, how to stop Facebook from stealing your phone number from your friend's phones? Phone numbers aren't content - FB is still stealing it.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by wilsonnb on Thursday April 05, 2018 @09:57AM (#16764916)
It's not stealing if your friend consents to it. If you don't want your phone number shared with Facebook, don't share it with people who are going to share it with Facebook.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by wilsonnb on Thursday April 05, 2018 @09:55AM (#16764900)
You can't tell Facebook not to do that because your phone number and texts are no longer just yours at that point.

Your friend has a copy and can do whatever they want with them, including share them with Facebook, the NSA/FBI/police, their friends, or anyone else they want to.

If you don't want them shared with Facebook, don't give the people who are sharing them with Facebook a copy.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by awat on Thursday April 05, 2018 @11:30AM (#16765793)
I think your point is under represented in the digital privacy conversation. It doesnt do me a lot of good to stay off of Facebook if Facebook is still mapping me and scraping my contact info from other peoples phones.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by blanche_ on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:44AM (#16762749)
You can enable to only tag photos after your approval.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by a012 on Thursday April 05, 2018 @07:17AM (#16763721)
You can add a filter on your profile but the other people did post a photo which include yourself on their wall. So mutual friends still see the post no matter your security settings.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by herbst on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:23AM (#16762645)
Usually when I creep these people out by confronting them with personal details of their life (which I simply snapped of public Facebook data) they actually are creeped out.

So while yours is a interesting thought I highly doubt a lot of people Actually understand the full issue.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by xiphias on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:35AM (#16762702)
It sounds interesting, can you give a concrete example?
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by mayniac on Thursday April 05, 2018 @05:49AM (#16763315)
Not the person you're replying to, but I had a boss at an old job who liked to make "your mum" jokes as often as humanly possible. It got annoying. Since we worked in forensics and did a lot of OSINT I decided to stop it using Facebook.

Found his Facebook. He didn't have any family listed, for privacy. Friends list wasn't visible either. However his dad and sister, both easily identifiable as such, I found since they had both liked the same profile picture a few years ago, and I could view their relationship (handy trick, go to someones user account, add ?and= followed by the user ID of another user and you can view relationships between anyone). Saw that they had a few mutual friends, <10. Found two which fit the criteria for possibly being my boss's mum. Searched both names in the electoral register and got rough locations. One of them lived in the same city my boss had listed as his birthplace, and co-habited with the person I previously identified as his dad. She was using her maiden name on Facebook (there goes security questions). I paid £1-2 for the full address.

For the next week or so I sent him random bits of information about his mum whenever he made a bad "your mum" joke at me (if it was good I didn't particularly care). Previous addresses, streetview screenshot of her house etc. Despite streetview blurring her car's license plate, I could see what make/model/colour it was, which was enough to find the license plate by skimming through photos posted on various sites which let you search by location. So I sent him MOT and road tax reminders too. It was fairly easy to find what schools she had gone to, previous marriages, a company she had started etc. He stopped making "your mum" jokes after a week.

Bear in mind: this was someone who worked in computer security and was actively privacy conscious, and within an hour I had enough information that I could have probably stolen his identity.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by herbst on Thursday April 05, 2018 @02:53PM (#16767864)
I like to do it passively if the person doesn't already expect it. Like asking overly specific questions about past events they posted. 'how was dj dickhead in January?' 'the girl you were with didn't she go to (put school I surely shouldn't know anything about here)' just making random creeper comments and getting worse until I explain my intention. For the best effect stretch this process over a evening or more.

We had a overly 'social' secretary which didn't understand privacy implications until she met our team :) we pointed out every joint, cheap vodka bottle, or even slightly awkward things found in mirror selfies until she started to really rethink her privacy.

Or there is a old social network many people in my country kept for the email. They encouraged to write or at least post poems. Lot of awkward lines to be found there to make some heads red.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by sf_rob on Thursday April 05, 2018 @01:18PM (#16766830)
While I don't approve of some (most?) of their antics, Phone Losers of America did a series where they "prank called" users of Foursquare and started reading off details about their personal lives. Pretty scary stuff that puts things in perspective.
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by herbst on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:39AM (#16762727)
I am thinking things like Wechat, Telegram (also Whatsapp to some degree but that's behind in functionality) but also things like discord and slack.

So without a direct social graph, specialised interest groups, more direct connections, more 'privacy' at least in terms of how public the data is available.

Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by herbst on Thursday April 05, 2018 @02:41PM (#16767760)
Shit wrong comment. Sorry
Re:Don’t Fix Facebook, Replace It by sidcool on Thursday April 05, 2018 @05:32AM (#16763248)
It's that she's unaware of the negative consequences of hyper social media presence. She seems to have become addicted to the 'likes' of FB. Unless there is a cancer like warning for social media, she's unlikely to give it up.

The lure of being more famous than her friends is too much to resist. Not sure if wrong or right. I would like being famous on HN, StackOverflow, tech blogs etc. Perhaps it's similar.