The camera fails to work consistently (the driver does not always load)

Audio fails to work consistently (restarting pulse fixes this)

Closing the laptop lid initially sleeps, but then the laptop wakes up a few minutes later for no reason (so I wrote a script to disable all the events that can wake the laptop up, but this in turn causes it to not wake up at all sometimes when I actually want it to)

kde plasmashell will crash if I try to use ffplay, and doesn't reliably recover so I end up needing to restart my session which loses any work I hadn't saved since I can't switch windows

These are all problems I have never experienced with my Windows laptop, nor macOS.

Anecdotes obviously, but I've been trying to go only Linux for the past decade and never felt like I could reliably do so.

It's important to buy hardware that is supported and properly documented by the manufacturer. Apple is not one of those that do that.

It's nothing like it was 5-10yrs ago.

The person you're replying to is right, using Linux is a lot like using MacOS, you need the right hardware for the software. I too had issues with Macbooks and it was like night/day switching to Dell/Lenovo when using Linux. When everything works, desktop Linux is very nice and on the same tier (or better) to MacOS as a programmer.

If you want a stable experience, you'll need a lts release with supported hardware. Eg for Ubuntu: 16.04 along with a Dell xps. Or red hat, debian stable or whatever.

Fortunately Ubuntu 18.04 is just around the corner.

Not saying poor hw vendor support for Linux isn't still a problem. But my parents have actually had more issues upgrading to Windows 10 (firewire drivers not working, won't be fixed by vendor or ms).

Seems to be trend that when hw doesn't work on Windows, it's "pc doesn't work/is difficult", on Mac it's "well, third party, can't expect it to work". But with Linux it's always: "Linux is crap".

I said the Linux desktop experience has not been good to me, with any of the hardware (even the stuff I picked specifically for good support) with very popular hardware. I still use Linux as my desktop OS, and really would love to ditch Windows 10 permanently but don't feel like I can without a lot of frustration. The same as it has been for the past 20 years for me.

With ThinkPad I never had an issue.

Perform vanilla install of Windows 10 on new desktop build

Watch it sporadically work with Logitech 920 webcam

Watch it randomly not load network device at boot

Watch it show me a blank login screen with no ability to pick a user or enter pwd

Watch it “lose” a USB connected Brother laser printer

Watch it ...

I’m pretty sure Windows and Apple get a pass on quality because we’re low level conditioned to give Big Corp products a pass

The Ubuntu + i3 setup I’ve been rolling for years now has not given me any more or less odd ball problems than Win or OSX

OSX on my work laptop reboots every day. I have Firefox and Slack and some stuff installed via homebrew, on a 2017 MacBook from work. Every morning “your computer is recovering from a shutdown”. Even if I shut the software. IT hasn’t figured it out, Apple can’t and won’t replace hardware that tests ok

Watch FaceTime just stop doing anything every call I make with it

Oooh and the WiFi issues with Mac that I haven’t had with Linux since wpa_supplicant was managed by hand

But Apple has their “just works” rep. I mean it “just loads” then just needs a reload everyday seems more accurate

I’m not saying Linux isn’t a quirky chore

I’m saying it doesn’t seem any quirkier than the competition going off my daily experiences with all 3

Starting from my Commodore128 till today, other than that original Commodore, I haven't seen anything else as well-built as Windows. macOS & desktop Linux distros included. I hate to elevate one above the other but my honest opinion starting on desktops in 1986 that Windows is the most rock solid desktop OS out there today. Microsoft has to ensure it's the most battle tested by necessity, given that even back in 2011 it ran 1+ billion[0] devices. There's nothing else even in the same league for desktop operating systems when it comes to exposure, testing & fixes in the QA feedback loop. Even the big player, Ubuntu, doesn't come close.

[0]http://www.businessinsider.com/right-now-there-are-125-billi...

- Works flawless. - No issues with the webcam. - Plasmashell don't crash. - Even I can use my old Epson C-62 printer where on Windows I can't!

And I have nearly the same configuration on my workplace without issues.

The only issues that I notice: - Skype for linux is garbage. - OBS doing weird thing the last time that I try, I need to update it.

Works perfectly? Exaggeration isn't going to change anything. "Those anecdotes are bullshit but mine aren't, they were doing it wrong" is a common trope in these discussions.

At least with laptops, there are models that you can research and see if other people have been successful using a Linux distro on them.

Building your own Linux gaming rig is then that much harder in comparison for most people.

I really want Linux to be the go-to OS that people install, but the criticisms of it tend to be pretty valid, IME.

Intel and Atheros wifi works great out of the box 99% of the time

Video Card support: video drivers are still a pain point for sure, but I don't think it's fair to say 'video card support is terrible' as a blanket statement. Intel, Nvidia and AMD graphics all work on linux.

AMD is making great progress with their OSS drivers, and intel has been well supported with OSS drivers for a long time now.

Most issues are due to nvidia still insisting on only supporting proprietary drivers, and the annoying issues that come with that (e.g. drivers breaking after kernel updates).

Audio: Usually just works out of the box

Sleep: In my experience sleep works fine on most hardware, but there are some motherboards with horrifically buggy acpi implementations that have issues.

Or Ralink. I bought a TP-Link Archer with Ralink that had a driver and was a recommended AC chipset on some sites at the time. The driver loaded and worked, but frequently dropped connections or had very slow transfer rates.

AMD graphics, NVIDIA

Still can't reliable switch my monitor on/off without problems (artifacting or miscellaneous Wayland compositor bugs) with the amdgpu driver. I used NVIDIA with Nouveau before, but that was even less reliable (regular flickering). At least amdgpu works fine if I keep my screen on and avoid system sleeps.

Sleep function works better that Windows. I don't get blue screens when I wake up, like windows does. Also, the time since I boot to get ready to do something, is far better on Linux that on Windows.

Also, I can output sound at same time by HDMI and to the sound card out put. I can't do that on Windows!

And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows.

> And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows.

I haven't used Windows in years, but if that is the case, Windows must have gotten way worse. I can't say my experience with any video-card vendor has been smooth on Linux.

Someone posts legitimate complaints, someone else comes out of the woodwork saying "works for me!", dismisses those complaints, and wonders why nobody gives a shit about their desktop platform.

My recipe for success lately is: use all Intel hardware for major components (CPU/GPU/Net), use Business grade hardware (I run Thinkpads and Optiplex desktops at the moment), and stick to a rolling release distro or otherwise frequently updated one (I use Arch, there are probably plenty of other good options, but don't try to run a 2 year old LTS distro on 2 month old hardware if you don't want a headache).

Wifi: randomly drops out, packet loss, inability to connect.

Audio: I still end up having to disable Pulsaudio about half the time.

I generally use older Thinkpads and Debian, though I've used Arch, Ubuntu, Mint and probably others, as well as a range of hardware.

I guess it's a matter of habit and expectations then?

Nevertheless, I can't help but laugh at the fact that you basically just suggested for him to try another distro.

More seriously, the reason that suggestion is so common is because it does sometimes work out and I can't blame you for pointing that out.