That's not true. Stick to the 'user friendly' popular ones (Ubuntu, Mint, etc) and they're very solid now. Sure, edge cases are still a problem, but for gaming - if supported - not really anything more problematic than Windows.
When did you last try Linux?
The camera fails to work consistently (the driver does not always load)
Audio fails to work consistently (restarting pulse fixes this)
Closing the laptop lid initially sleeps, but then the laptop wakes up a few minutes later for no reason (so I wrote a script to disable all the events that can wake the laptop up, but this in turn causes it to not wake up at all sometimes when I actually want it to)
kde plasmashell will crash if I try to use ffplay, and doesn't reliably recover so I end up needing to restart my session which loses any work I hadn't saved since I can't switch windows
These are all problems I have never experienced with my Windows laptop, nor macOS.
Anecdotes obviously, but I've been trying to go only Linux for the past decade and never felt like I could reliably do so.
It's important to buy hardware that is supported and properly documented by the manufacturer. Apple is not one of those that do that.
It's nothing like it was 5-10yrs ago.
The person you're replying to is right, using Linux is a lot like using MacOS, you need the right hardware for the software. I too had issues with Macbooks and it was like night/day switching to Dell/Lenovo when using Linux. When everything works, desktop Linux is very nice and on the same tier (or better) to MacOS as a programmer.
If you want a stable experience, you'll need a lts release with supported hardware. Eg for Ubuntu: 16.04 along with a Dell xps. Or red hat, debian stable or whatever.
Fortunately Ubuntu 18.04 is just around the corner.
Not saying poor hw vendor support for Linux isn't still a problem. But my parents have actually had more issues upgrading to Windows 10 (firewire drivers not working, won't be fixed by vendor or ms).
Seems to be trend that when hw doesn't work on Windows, it's "pc doesn't work/is difficult", on Mac it's "well, third party, can't expect it to work". But with Linux it's always: "Linux is crap".
I said the Linux desktop experience has not been good to me, with any of the hardware (even the stuff I picked specifically for good support) with very popular hardware. I still use Linux as my desktop OS, and really would love to ditch Windows 10 permanently but don't feel like I can without a lot of frustration. The same as it has been for the past 20 years for me.
With ThinkPad I never had an issue.
Perform vanilla install of Windows 10 on new desktop build
Watch it sporadically work with Logitech 920 webcam
Watch it randomly not load network device at boot
Watch it show me a blank login screen with no ability to pick a user or enter pwd
Watch it “lose” a USB connected Brother laser printer
Watch it ...
I’m pretty sure Windows and Apple get a pass on quality because we’re low level conditioned to give Big Corp products a pass
The Ubuntu + i3 setup I’ve been rolling for years now has not given me any more or less odd ball problems than Win or OSX
OSX on my work laptop reboots every day. I have Firefox and Slack and some stuff installed via homebrew, on a 2017 MacBook from work. Every morning “your computer is recovering from a shutdown”. Even if I shut the software. IT hasn’t figured it out, Apple can’t and won’t replace hardware that tests ok
Watch FaceTime just stop doing anything every call I make with it
Oooh and the WiFi issues with Mac that I haven’t had with Linux since wpa_supplicant was managed by hand
But Apple has their “just works” rep. I mean it “just loads” then just needs a reload everyday seems more accurate
I’m not saying Linux isn’t a quirky chore
I’m saying it doesn’t seem any quirkier than the competition going off my daily experiences with all 3
Starting from my Commodore128 till today, other than that original Commodore, I haven't seen anything else as well-built as Windows. macOS & desktop Linux distros included. I hate to elevate one above the other but my honest opinion starting on desktops in 1986 that Windows is the most rock solid desktop OS out there today. Microsoft has to ensure it's the most battle tested by necessity, given that even back in 2011 it ran 1+ billion[0] devices. There's nothing else even in the same league for desktop operating systems when it comes to exposure, testing & fixes in the QA feedback loop. Even the big player, Ubuntu, doesn't come close.
[0]http://www.businessinsider.com/right-now-there-are-125-billi...
- Works flawless. - No issues with the webcam. - Plasmashell don't crash. - Even I can use my old Epson C-62 printer where on Windows I can't!
And I have nearly the same configuration on my workplace without issues.
The only issues that I notice: - Skype for linux is garbage. - OBS doing weird thing the last time that I try, I need to update it.
Works perfectly? Exaggeration isn't going to change anything. "Those anecdotes are bullshit but mine aren't, they were doing it wrong" is a common trope in these discussions.
At least with laptops, there are models that you can research and see if other people have been successful using a Linux distro on them.
Building your own Linux gaming rig is then that much harder in comparison for most people.
I really want Linux to be the go-to OS that people install, but the criticisms of it tend to be pretty valid, IME.
Intel and Atheros wifi works great out of the box 99% of the time
Video Card support: video drivers are still a pain point for sure, but I don't think it's fair to say 'video card support is terrible' as a blanket statement. Intel, Nvidia and AMD graphics all work on linux.
AMD is making great progress with their OSS drivers, and intel has been well supported with OSS drivers for a long time now.
Most issues are due to nvidia still insisting on only supporting proprietary drivers, and the annoying issues that come with that (e.g. drivers breaking after kernel updates).
Audio: Usually just works out of the box
Sleep: In my experience sleep works fine on most hardware, but there are some motherboards with horrifically buggy acpi implementations that have issues.
Or Ralink. I bought a TP-Link Archer with Ralink that had a driver and was a recommended AC chipset on some sites at the time. The driver loaded and worked, but frequently dropped connections or had very slow transfer rates.
AMD graphics, NVIDIA
Still can't reliable switch my monitor on/off without problems (artifacting or miscellaneous Wayland compositor bugs) with the amdgpu driver. I used NVIDIA with Nouveau before, but that was even less reliable (regular flickering). At least amdgpu works fine if I keep my screen on and avoid system sleeps.
Sleep function works better that Windows. I don't get blue screens when I wake up, like windows does. Also, the time since I boot to get ready to do something, is far better on Linux that on Windows.
Also, I can output sound at same time by HDMI and to the sound card out put. I can't do that on Windows!
And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows.
> And Video card support, with AMD, it's at the same level that Windows.
I haven't used Windows in years, but if that is the case, Windows must have gotten way worse. I can't say my experience with any video-card vendor has been smooth on Linux.
Someone posts legitimate complaints, someone else comes out of the woodwork saying "works for me!", dismisses those complaints, and wonders why nobody gives a shit about their desktop platform.
My recipe for success lately is: use all Intel hardware for major components (CPU/GPU/Net), use Business grade hardware (I run Thinkpads and Optiplex desktops at the moment), and stick to a rolling release distro or otherwise frequently updated one (I use Arch, there are probably plenty of other good options, but don't try to run a 2 year old LTS distro on 2 month old hardware if you don't want a headache).
Wifi: randomly drops out, packet loss, inability to connect.
Audio: I still end up having to disable Pulsaudio about half the time.
I generally use older Thinkpads and Debian, though I've used Arch, Ubuntu, Mint and probably others, as well as a range of hardware.
I guess it's a matter of habit and expectations then?
Nevertheless, I can't help but laugh at the fact that you basically just suggested for him to try another distro.
More seriously, the reason that suggestion is so common is because it does sometimes work out and I can't blame you for pointing that out.
They released HL2 as a Steam exclusive (IIRC), and your description of Linux now was how you'd describe Steam then (not great, a headache). It won Steam lots of friends and set it on its money-printing way.
I'll be the first to agree that there isn't much on the line for Valve now, given that Microsoft has pulled back from the more extreme plans of Windows-Store-exclusivity fuckery, which was an existential threat to Valve.
Having once been a Linux Desktop evangelist, and knowing what I do about modern Linux Desktops, I feel I can safely say that very few people are going to be won over by it.
There is a ...tiny... difference between "install an additional shitty drm software" and "replace your entire system". And yes, even steams introduction was hard, back in the day with shitty internet... i certainly wouldn't spend that much time (and money for isdn traffic) installing a game these days.
After installing it, the machine would hang during boot. I had to boot to recovery mode to remove the driver. Then I tried to switch to Xorg from Wayland. That also caused the UI to fail to load. I eventually figured out how to get Xorg to work and tried the AMDGPU driver again. Again, failed to boot. I ended up reinstalling Ubuntu from scratch. I've consigned myself to the fact that I can't resolve the tearing issue and I'll just have to live with it.
So, I dual-boot Windows 10 and Ubuntu, depending on the task I'm working on.
Why is everybody who is complaining about the Ubuntu issues trying to run what amounts to a beta build of the operating system? I think you would have a lot smoother experience of the just a to 16.04 and don't upgrade until everything is ironed out.
After going a bit back and forth on canonical/Ubuntu - I'm starting to think I've slightly misunderstood what they're doing: they really are all about competing with red hat on a debian foundation. This is both good and bad; Lxd and juju seem great, and they have a live kernel patching service (costs money :-/), support contracts... And put effort into various projects that benefits everyone.
But they're not really trying to be a great free software project/product - a "better" debian than debian.
I think that's actually for the better - but they've got the signalling a bit messed up. Almost no-one should run non-lts Ubuntu as their daily driver, IMNHO - just like Debian testing is for the adventurous - not for the person new to debian.
But every Ubuntu release comes with friendly packaging that understandably confuses newcomers. And by the time people have few years experience, they've become tinkerers - the target audience. So they stay, and pull people on to the edge, when most would be better off with the boring stuff that works pretty great.
Maybe it's just poor/understaffed community management. Debian has a wiki that's half dead in places (I've made some half-hearted attempts to help give it live support - but it's though keep going when there's so few around...) - While Ubuntu have vibrant user Web forums ripe with enthusiastic and often very misguided advice...
I have a Linux machine at home and I use it regularly. Linux is great as a Unix system. It has a more modern userland than macOS. Linux is exceptionally good for development (from recent gcc/clang to profiling with perf). But why can't we just be honest: Linux and hardware is hit and miss. You need to buy the right hardware and configuration typically requires at least some terminal work and/or configuration file editing, which are both outside the realm of regular users and many gamers.
When they've already committed to purchasing and assembling special hardware components just to run the games? Crosschecking your build against Linux compatibility would be pretty simple...
Every time I mention the macbook, I am always chided that "it's a lemon." In that spirit, given the preponderance of people who use linux daily and have no issues[0] with it, I think it's time to stop claiming the issue is linux itself already. It isn't a valid argument anymore in 2018 and given the fact about drivers on linux, it's even more surprising how well it does when one has driver support.
[0] No issues that wouldn't be something out of the norm of what windows users or mac users are already used to regularly dealing with.
A move like this would definitely not win Linux any friends, because as it turns out the Linux Desktop really isn't that great and you'd just be causing a huge headache for a lot of people. The gamers would be annoyed at having to deal with Linux's bullshit, the Linux Destkop community would be annoyed at the huge influx of new users who don't think "try another distro" (especially after the third distro), or "write your own driver, it's open source!", are acceptable solutions to their problems.
If Linux wants gamers there's a simple (note: simple != easy) thing they have to do: make their platform attractive to gamers and game developers. So far they can't manage either, the only reason gaming on Linux is even remotely viable is A) Valve coming in and saying "Ok, since there's no such thing as a standardized base system in Linux Desktop land, here's a standardized base system for Steam you can target", and 2) the popularity of Android making engines like Unity and Unreal have Linux support, which allows devs to tack it on without too much extra effort.