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Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by pvg on Monday April 02, 2018 @03:04PM (#16738040)
The point is, if we're going to bring up what an 'easy' time Apple has had transitioning from one architecture to another, it's worth remembering each transition came with a big performance jump. This made the new platform desirable and emulation bearable. If they are considering a transition again, 'bearable emulation' is not as much of a given.
Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by stock_toaster on Monday April 02, 2018 @03:31PM (#16738345)
While single core performance may not be higher, I could see Apple adding more cores than their current Intel offerings have, and still fall within an acceptable power envelope (thermal, battery life, etc).
Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by klodolph on Monday April 02, 2018 @03:49PM (#16738569)
My memory is that the PPC -> x86 jump was due to PPC supply issues and the fact that the PowerPC 970 / G5 was too power hungry for laptops. I could be wrong, but I administered labs of mixed x86 / PPC Macs during the transition and the performance jump seemed just like the normal difference between successive generations.

Keep in mind that while you don’t see much 68k outside embedded these days, you still see POWER in supercomputer rankings, and it also appeared in game consoles.

Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by pvg on Monday April 02, 2018 @04:18PM (#16738874)
They were a lot faster, especially the laptops. And that was really the consumer proposition in both cases - you put up with our switch in exchange for a faster, better, stronger computer.

If Apple ends up doing it, the proposition would almost certainly be different and it seems very unlikely it would involve things like running your x86_64 macOS apps on your brand new Mac except three times slower. Thinking about this in terms of previous changes (or in terms of PPC history details) just seems obviously wrongheaded to me.

Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by cptskippy on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @02:30PM (#16757534)
People assume that everyone who uses a Mac is running Photoshop or developing advanced AI but they're not. There are a lot of professionals using Apple products but they avoid the low end like the plague. Apple is a lifestyle brand these days and much of the user base has no demand for anything beyond the core Apple Apps.

The Macbook Core i3 is barely enough to run Safari or iTunes and Apple could probably replace the CPU without many of those users ever noticing.

Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by mozumder on Monday April 02, 2018 @03:33PM (#16738375)
I'd expect a huge performance jump when the new ARM-based Macs come out, both in Single-core (they can ramp up the clocks and increase cache and execution units) and Multi-core (they can add more cores to fit new power budgets as well).

The current A11 chips for iPhones are within 10% of Intel's top mobile chips on Geekbench, and within about 30% on their top desktop CPUs.

It's entirely possible for chip architectures to see 2x-3x speeds when moving from mobile power budgets to desktop power budgets.

An Intel Pentium 4410Y Kaby Lake running at 4.5-6 Watts gets about 1800 single-core on Geekbench, while an Intel Core i7-7700K Kaby Lake running at 115 Watts gets 5600 single-core on Geekbench.

Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by kllrnohj on Monday April 02, 2018 @04:22PM (#16738916)
> The current A11 chips for iPhones are within 10% of Intel's top mobile chips on Geekbench

No, they aren't. iPhone X's multithreaded geekbench score is 10k. The 15" macbook pro is 15k. That's a lot more than 10%. It's only close if you look at the lower end Intel chips, the dual core ones (which is what Apple ships in the 13" macbook pro).

Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by mozumder on Monday April 02, 2018 @04:34PM (#16739018)
Those are multi-core numbers, not the single-core numbers.

What do you think is the most important for 250million desktop users? Because the vast majority of them are sitting idle waiting for interaction tasks, like on your system now.

Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by michaelmrose on Monday April 02, 2018 @05:34PM (#16739585)
Even browsers are doing a better job of loading multiple cores now and desktop machines often have more processes running in the background.
Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by kllrnohj on Monday April 02, 2018 @05:12PM (#16739361)
> Because the vast majority of them are sitting idle waiting for interaction tasks, like on your system now.

My dual Xeon E5-2690 v4 regularly loads all its cores and benefits greatly from them, but keep making assumptions by all means.

But if all you want is a chromebook competitor then sure, A11-class works fine. I'm going to guess that the people using Mac Pros tend to care a bit more about just running Chrome/Safari, though. Maybe Apple is just going to completely give up on their historically strong content creation market.

Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by fulafel on Tuesday April 03, 2018 @07:11AM (#16743516)
Geekbench is not representative of application performance, sadly.
Re:Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Repla... by dannyw on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:55PM (#16741544)
The Intel chip is definitely along the biggest line items on a Mac. Apple can cut that cost by 70-80%.