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Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by dpwm on Friday March 30, 2018 @12:59PM (#16717782)
I think you're missing the greater context here. Bosworth's memo is classic end justifies the means. This is almost an admission that they knew things they were doing would be deeply unpopular.

The post in full doesn't read at all like it was to stimulate discussion. It reads more like it was to silence dissent.

If you really wanted to stimulate discussion and gather employee views on this stuff, you'd send a survey round. But the relationship is still asymmetrical between boss and employee.

All you're doing when posting something like this semi-publicly is creating an environment where more quiet conscientious views get shouted down by the loudest voices.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by ribosometronome on Friday March 30, 2018 @01:04PM (#16717831)
>It reads more like it was to silence dissent.

Which makes his response read all that more hollow. Calling it a straw man? The post seems to have been an all out justification for immoral behavior by an executive. I can't imagine a Jr. Engineer or someone fresh out of college with their MA in Stats feeling super comfortable hopping in and going, "Hey this sound unethical and if people saw you saying it they would think we're hella fucked up." I'm relatively low-ranking at another big SV company and the thought of needing to stand up to a high ranking employee like that is more than a little intimidating.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by dpwm on Friday March 30, 2018 @01:20PM (#16717965)
> the thought of needing to stand up to a high ranking employee like that is more than a little intimidating.

And not just that, but to be expected to "contribute to a discussion" in such a way that all your coworkers can see. I think as somebody who takes objection to that memo I'd probably be more inclined look for alternative work.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by jyrkesh on Friday March 30, 2018 @01:47PM (#16718225)
Same. I'm not even THAT low-ranking, and it's still a big deal when I push back against a VP or director on something that's in my area. For some topic where I didn't even feel like an expert, against such language, and with morals concerned? I think I'd just silently start looking for a new job.
Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by Aunche on Friday March 30, 2018 @03:59PM (#16719331)
> I think I'd just silently start looking for a new job.

That's good though. Boz already made the decision to prioritize connecting more people, despite the costs. He didn't have to tell his employees, but he did. This allows you to make the decision on whether it's worth staying at Facebook.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by chris_wot on Friday March 30, 2018 @06:37PM (#16720405)
So basically, he’s admitted to unethical behaviour? Is this why his heart is breaking?
Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by jlarocco on Friday March 30, 2018 @04:19PM (#16719498)
It's good for that employee, but it doesn't do anything for the billions of people using Facebook.
Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by underwater on Friday March 30, 2018 @11:54PM (#16721626)
I had disagreements with Boz via text while I was a rank and file employee at Facebook. It didn’t change his mind, and I still thought he was incorrect.

But I’d sure as hell take that situation over many others I’ve had where my only contact with execs is through occasional, content-free memos.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by skybrian on Friday March 30, 2018 @01:46PM (#16718217)
I'd guess that sending a one-sided bombshell like that would tend to stimulate debate rather than suppressing it, at least in a company with a tradition of lively internal debate. Maybe in more top-down companies it's different?

But yes, the people in power do tend to be heard more in internal debate. (Not necessarily just managers though. Good or controversial writers can also have a lot of influence.) And this does mean more soft-spoken people sometimes don't get an equal voice.

Online discussions are often more heat than light. I don't think internal discussion can be replaced by surveys, though? They're both useful.

There are also problems that equality doesn't fix. As the number of people scales up, the power of each person gets smaller. Filling out a survey when you know it's one of hundreds or thousands tends not to feel very empowering, or even a good use of your time.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by ethbro on Friday March 30, 2018 @09:57PM (#16721220)
I guess I'm comparing and contrasting this with the infamous Google sexism memo.

They canned an employee for saying something unpopular they disagreed with.

The fact that this went such a different way says something. Maybe that something is "the cultures of Google and Facebook are so different it explains the discrepancy." But maybe it's "Facebook wanted to float this as an ethical trial balloon."

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by intended on Saturday March 31, 2018 @03:41AM (#16722253)
They canned an employee for creating an unholy PR shitstorm outside of the firm.

Basically this is the end of the tech world and all those people who used to join these firms because they believed tech would make the world a better place.

Now its going to be pretty much closed communication and minimal interaction internally. IF you have an issue, well tough balls, tech is no longer good for that - god forbid it shows up on HN. If it shows up on the media thats career suicide.

I suspect its probably time for HN to be shut down soon as well.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by Chris2048 on Sunday April 01, 2018 @06:56PM (#16731004)
No they didn't, they didn't can the leaker that actually created the shitstorm, they canned Damore to appease the outraged.
Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by Angostura on Friday March 30, 2018 @06:11PM (#16720239)
I must admit, when I read it, it did absolutely read to me like a contrarian attempt to start debate. I find it hard to believe that anyone would post sentiments along the lines of ‘we connect people, so what if someone commits suicide’ without it being a deliberate attempt to start debate.

If he actually believed that stuff, it would be extraordinary scary. I don’t think he does.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by rhizome on Friday March 30, 2018 @06:31PM (#16720370)
"The risk of sarcasm is that you're taken seriously."

Trolling is a terrible leadership technique.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by underwater on Saturday March 31, 2018 @12:01AM (#16721653)
Have you read any HN’s opinions on self driving cars? There is a strongly held belief that individual deaths don’t matter as long as, on average, deaths go down. You can argue the connecting people is inherently good, so how are Boz’s opinions any different?

Boz’s pieces over the last few years tend to fall into the “Strong opinions, weakly held” category. I also suspect he argues a point that is stronger in sentiment than he really believes, to help his message stand out.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by chris_wot on Friday March 30, 2018 @06:18PM (#16720288)
The problem is, you might think that but this is senior leadership putting out an email that is setting the general culture and direction for the company. He’s explicitly recognising and endorsing “questionable” (his words!) decisions made.

He can’t come back and say he didn’t mean it. Besides, if he was trying to spark debate, doesn’t that mean he though my it was even potentially justifiable to use unethical practices to drive growth?

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by Angostura on Saturday March 31, 2018 @05:13AM (#16722489)
I agree it was very poorly judged. Regarding your last point, I honestly assumed that he had seen stirrings of this kid of reasoning within the company and was attempting to ridicule it.
Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by nipponese on Friday March 30, 2018 @01:37PM (#16718118)
Are they truly unpopular? The events in question happened several years ago, and while this specific incident wasn't known, it was well-understood that FB profiting from harvesting personal data.

In my daily casual conversations with co-workers and friends, the topic is very rarely raised, and only to speculate why the timing of the issue seems to tied to a rise in conservative politics.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by jcranberry on Friday March 30, 2018 @03:50PM (#16719255)
The consequentialism is not the talking point in the meme. What's controversial is his valuation of "the ends": that "connecting people" has greater utility than the life or happiness of a minority of those connected.

I'm not going to make any assertions about the intent of the meme because I don't know the context, but the logic expressed in the meme seems to have been their strategy already to me, from the outside.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by pbalau on Friday March 30, 2018 @04:10PM (#16719429)
> This is almost an admission that they knew things they were doing would be deeply unpopular.

Yes, and there were discussions internally about this. One could argue that the recent shift from promoting pages content to promoting your friends content might have been the result of that.

Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by mmcnl on Friday March 30, 2018 @03:57PM (#16719324)
Perhaps you would send a survey, Bosworth chose for a different option. Internal memos leaking out to the public without context is a classic case of causing FUD.
Re:Internal Facebook posts of employees discussing leaked memo by intended on Saturday March 31, 2018 @03:38AM (#16722246)
The post will always look different to outsiders wont it?

most of the justifications for it to appear as dissent silencing will have to be post fact justifications as a result.