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Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by maxxxxx on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:13PM (#16588350)
What would you do with 60 seconds warning? Crawl under a table? I am not facetious. It's probably not enough time to run out of a building.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by xoa on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:38PM (#16588531)
>Crawl under a table? I am not facetious.

Yes actually (or go into a doorway or similar). I don't understand the derision extremely simple and basic response strategies (like the well designed and effective "duck and cover" for nuclear strikes) get when they can be absolutely enormous lifesavers. A huge amount of the human injury potential from a lot of major classes of disaster is from simple stuff like flying/falling glass and falling dense materials, all of which can do terrible things to an unprotected human body but are also absolutely trivial to deflect with another inert object. Shattered non-safety glass will cause tremendous damage to soft tissues, and someone can certainly be badly injured or killed by even a small weight like a brick or other dense objects that fall from just ceiling or high shelf height.

But none of those is going to go through heavy steel or wood. Typical work desks and tables (and of course institutional use furniture in general) are quite sturdy. Door frames tend to exhibit significant structural reinforcement as well and be away from many short range dangers. Putting an inch or two (4-6 cm) equivalent of hardwood, dense composite wood, or metal between a person and debris can be the work of seconds, and the difference between a brick landing on the table vs on someone's skull is not nothing, as is getting into a position protecting the face and vulnerable extremities and organs as much as feasible and being braced.

It's true that better architectural and infrastructure design matters tremendously and is worth continuing to work on, that if a heavy building pancakes then anyone inside is in trouble/toast, etc. But on a population survival/mass casualty reduction basis a little executed well can make a bigger difference then a lot of people give credit. The difference between death/grievous injury in many mass disasters can come down to relatively small differences in where someone is and what actions they take right before, and how practiced they are in taking the best actions promptly. Don't underestimate it.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by dawnerd on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:26PM (#16588436)
60 seconds is better than nothing. Similar to japan, that 60 seconds could mean stopping trains and anything else sensitive to the ground moving. Elevators could be stopped and people directed out. Gas and water shut off. Quite a bit more too, really.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by mikeyouse on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:48PM (#16588617)
Partial list of things that can happen with even 10 seconds of warning:

* Elevators stop at closest floor and doors open, preventing people from being stuck between floors.

* Critical garage doors & gates at fire stations / hospitals will open, allowing emergency vehicles to quickly exit.

* Other critical doors & gates will close to prevent people from entering tunnels or other areas that could be blocked off.

* Trains will slow or stop to prevent derailments.

* Oil/Gas pipeline pressures will be reduced and valves will close to lessen impact if line is compromised.

* Hospitals alert to prevent mishaps in surgery or other dangerous areas (like MRIs).

* Airports alert to stop takeoffs/landings in case there are buckles in the runway.

In short, there are a ton of things that you can do to prevent really bad outcomes (many of which are prefaced on doing something before the power cuts out) that are much more difficult and expensive after the shaking has started.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by nostrademons on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:57PM (#16588683)
Could also post electronic signs on freeways that warn motorists to stop and pull over immediately, particularly before hazardous areas like bridges, tunnels, viaducts, and onramps. IIRC most of the civilian casualties of the 1989 Loma Prieta & 1994 Northridge earthquakes were from viaduct or bridge collapses that pinned cars underneath. With a minute's warning, you can prevent any more cars from entering the bridge and get most of the existing traffic out.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by hyperbovine on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:10PM (#16588778)
I can almost guarantee you that a warning like that, broadcast at certain times of the day on all major freeways in LA or the bay area, would kill more people than the events that you mentioned.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by maxxxxx on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:28PM (#16588457)
That actually makes sense for things like utilities and trains systems. Power plants also probably could use that kind of warning.

I hope it won't rain during an earthquake or landslides may happen.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by ekianjo on Thursday March 15, 2018 @07:18AM (#16591812)
You dont stop a shinkansen at full speed in 60 seconds. Note that in 2011 no shinkansen derailed despite the intensity of the earthquake.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by Piskvorrr on Thursday March 15, 2018 @09:43AM (#16592742)
Still, m*v^2; lower speed means dramatically less kinetic energy to go around in case of a derailment.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by rticesterp on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:30PM (#16588466)
Surgeons can stop cutting on someone during a surgery. An earthquake is bad timing if a scalpel is close to a major artery.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by asclepi on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:20PM (#16588393)
It saves more time. Warned humans will also skip the costly "what's going on"-realization phase of the human brain.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by noonespecial on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:46PM (#16588595)
Get down off a ladder. Stop your car. Pull boiling water off a stove.

I can go all day....

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by jccooper on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:22PM (#16588407)
That's ample time to exit homes and small buildings, which are are the structures likely to be most dangerous in a quake.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by daxorid on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:35PM (#16588511)
Wood-framed single story homes are some of the most seismically safe (by virtue of flexibility) structures.

Unreinforced masonry structures, tilt-up concrete buildings, and the like are far more dangerous. California has a lot of legacy tilt-up concrete structures in industrial and commercial zones.

Residences are probably more vulnerable to the resultant gas leak fires than the quake itself.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by toomanybeersies on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @07:58PM (#16589448)
A framed house is about the safest building you can be in in an earthquake. They are small enough that they just flex with the earthquake.

It's masonry buildings that are the most dangerous.

Either way, you should not be trying to exit a building during an earthquake because the greatest risk is debris falling on you, not the building collapsing on you.

In fact, framed houses are so safe that the current advice is that if you are in bed when an earthquake occurs, you should stay in bed. You are more likely to get hurt trying to get out of bed and find cover.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by Retric on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @08:42PM (#16589634)
Depends on construction and earthquake size. Many frame houses have collapsed in an earthquake and the risks increase dramatically with building height.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by Gibbon1 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @07:17PM (#16589239)
In the Loma Prieta earthquake some of my co-workers exited building while dodging ceramic tiles coming falling off the roof. Then gathered under the power lines on the far side of the parking lot. Being a modern wood and steel framed building it was better to stay inside.

Also heard stories in the SF financial district of large glass windows popping out and falling into the street below.

Best time to sort out what to do is before the earthquake.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by matthewaveryusa on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:27PM (#16588452)
Are you sure that's good advice? It makes common sense but technically the advice is to stay indoors afaik
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by godelski on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:37PM (#16588524)
Would you rather be in an open field of a place with things above you?

The reason to stay indoors is if you're in a city or next to buildings where glass and shrapnel could fall on you. If you have open space outside, then that is a much better place to be.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by shaftway on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:59PM (#16588693)
You generally don't have enough time to get into an open field, even if you aren't in a city. If you happen to be right next to one, odds are you're in a single-story building with few weights in the attic. When these buildings fall down the doorframes are often left standing. Plus if you're running out while the ground is shaking there's a significant chance that the unsupported ceiling will fall on you, the building wall will fall on you, the windows will be flexing and shattering, cutting you...

Generally, standing in an interior doorway is a far safer move.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by godelski on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:22PM (#16588861)
I feel like you are disagreeing with me but also reiterating my point.

You don't need to be in field in Kansas to be safe outside. If you're in the suburbs you have lawns, parking lots, or streets and there aren't windows above you. Obviously if you're in downtown LA or SF don't go outside. But there's a lot of people that don't live in, or aren't going to be in, an area with multi-story buildings completely surrounding them. You can easily get far enough away from a couple story building (parking lot) and be safe. That is much safer than inside said building.

Here's the rule of thumb "If something can fall on you outside, go to a door frame or braced structure." But I'll reiterate, it depends on your initial location.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by squiggleblaz on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @11:46PM (#16590291)
It does depend on your initial location. But if your initial location is inside, then when going outside you are necessarily passing through dangerous territory. Because for as long as your exiting your building, you're right next to a building, which is a more dangerous place to be than inside a building under a desk.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by toast0 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @11:19PM (#16590202)
In the suburbs, I have a lawn, but there's some big trees. Out on the street, there's power lines. If it's big enough that I should be worried about my house falling down around me, I'm also worried about trees and downed power lines.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by jcranmer on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:27PM (#16588897)
It depends on the construction material. If the building is unreinforced masonry, the doorframe is the strongest part of the wall (with respect to earthquakes). If it is not, it is no stronger or weaker than the rest of the wall. (See https://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/topics/megaqk_facts_fantas...).

The most useful place to be in a major earthquake is anywhere where things are not going to swing into or fall onto you. Such as underneath a desk (assuming it's not a cheap construction that will buckle under any significant weight).

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by godelski on Thursday March 15, 2018 @06:06PM (#16596900)
But would you not agree that if available, the most safe space is an open field? That's all I'm saying here. People seem to be missing that I'm not suggesting going outside if things can fall on you outside.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by astrodust on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:31PM (#16588478)
Depends how rickety your house is, and where it's located.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by maxxxxx on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:34PM (#16588507)
If you can get out easily I don't see a reason to stay indoors. Maybe stay away from trees though.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by refurb on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:40PM (#16588549)
I can see a reason - protection from falling masonry.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by maxxxxx on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:47PM (#16588604)
I guess my workplace and home don't have surrounding buildings so it's ok to get out. With buildings around you it's probably less of a good idea.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by ovao on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:16PM (#16588378)
I think sixty seconds would be more than ample to evacuate most of the buildings I find myself in. In fact, the only building I don't think I could get out of within sixty seconds would be a Walmart or a big box home improvement store.

If you can't escape the building, the usual advice is to find a doorway.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by in_cahoots on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:48PM (#16588615)
You won’t know exactly how much time you have once you hear the warning. You might be better off finding shelter in the immediate vicinity rather than being caught in a potentially dangerous area 15sec into your 60sec evacuation route.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by cwkoss on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:06PM (#16588750)
Oh geez, the aisles with shelves of heavy objects stacked 20 feet high at home improvement stores would be terrifying during a big earthquake. Had never considered that.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by maxxxxx on Thursday March 15, 2018 @01:24AM (#16590585)
That's definitely one of the worst places to be :-)
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by ggg9990 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:37PM (#16588528)
Are you assuming nobody else is trying to exit at the same time? I can get out of my sixth floor apartment in 60 seconds but not if everyone in the building is trying the same thing.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by ovao on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:52PM (#16588635)
The crowd factor is primarily why I don’t think I could get out of a large store within sixty seconds, yes.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by KingPrad on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:22PM (#16588867)
The tricks discussed in CERT classes (which are well worth taking - very interesting material) is to go to back of store because few people think to. Same with concerts and other events - people instinctively run to the entrance in which they entered, rather than the nearest.

Secondly, if you're in the midst of huge shelves with no escape (like a home depot) get under the first shelf. the shelving won't collapse downwards, but if a neighboring shelf falls sideways you'll be protected.

Harder to do in a real emergency, but good ideas, and thinking them through can be enough to execute them when needed.

Anyway - I highly encourage taking a local CERT class if you're in the US, or finding the equivalent wherever you live.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by newnewpdro on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:53PM (#16588649)
Maybe when you're the only person leaving the building.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by northwest66 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:08PM (#16588766)
I had to duck a few LCDs and drop ceiling tiles in the 2011 Christchurch earthquake, 60 seconds would've been handy to hide under my desk.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by antod on Thursday March 15, 2018 @04:50AM (#16591240)
Based on the location of the epicentre, there was no way of getting a 60 sec (or any) warning if you were in Christchurch that day.

It would've been useful in the 2016 Kaikoura quake though - watching the models* of how that fault unzipped up the east coast of the South Island should've given Marlborough and Wellington some warning.

* Here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1HWet9j070

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by saagarjha on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:16PM (#16588372)
> Crawl under a table?

That's better than nothing.

> It's probably not enough time to run out of a building.

It could be, if the building is less than 3-4 stories tall.

Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by maxxxxx on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:26PM (#16588442)
At my workplace you wouldn't get anywhere within 60 seconds especially with everybody else rushing out at the same time.
Re:California's other drought: a major earthquake is overdue by ivanhoe on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:18PM (#16588384)
Well, if nothing else it's a minute more to decide what to do...