News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by minimaxir on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @12:54PM (#16586176)
It's worth nothing that one of Theranos's VC funders, Tim Draper, did defend Holmes despite the fraud allegations:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11973102

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/theranos-investor-cl...

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by jonmc12 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @02:39PM (#16587196)
https://www.axios.com/tim-draper-keeps-defending-theranos-15...

"Venture capitalist Tim Draper, an old family friend of Theranos founder and CEO Elizabeth Holmes, who led an early $1 million investment into the company (split between two investment firms).."

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by Noughmad on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:47PM (#16587685)
SV/tech/USA is so great, anyone can make it big. You just have to be smart and work hard. Oh, and be family friends with billionaires. Yeah, that's all.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by ericd on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @04:20PM (#16587953)
That's one way to get funding, but it's certainly not the only way, there are lots of counterexamples. As one obvious counterexample, one of the founding principles of YC is providing an open application process to provide people who don't have any personal connections access to the SV network. Larry and Sergey weren't well connected when they started, either, afaik, as most PhD students aren't. If you're doing something interesting that seems likely to succeed, and you're motivated, it's not all that hard to become connected to wealthy people who are very interested in turning their money into more money.

This is an incredibly defeatist/self pitying line of thinking that I'm seeing more of (the world is stacked against me, you have to be born into it, etc) and is related to a lot of other self-defeating thought patterns. It's not going to help you or anyone else who subscribes to it. Maybe it's just that bad news is much easier to see, thanks to the web, so people think bad behavior is more common now, and it's turning people cynical.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by dnautics on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:35PM (#16588514)
I think incorrect (or even correct, but rare) narratives are dangerous. Especially when they're the feel-good type that people tell to make themselves feel better about the way the world works. (meritocracy, egalitarianism, etc)

Anecdata, but: I left academic hard science because I realized it was too difficult to get ahead; moved to the bay since I can code and it was a way to create a runway and find myself, and pitch companies. Got a contract coding gig, because a professor on the board of my roommate's company was impressed that I had independently implemented his prototype as a personal side project. Applied to 10+ startups for "real programming jobs", including through triplebyte, rejected by all, finally got hired by a roommate's friend (on reputation only) whose company needed asses in seats for an investor meeting.

Meanwhile, I'd been pitching 3 biotech ideas and one tech idea (I had written verilog for a hardware prototype of a deep learning chip) and got no bites on any of my pitches.

Finally, a friend offered me a VP product position (because he needed someone he could trust) which I was about to jump ship for, and then my current CEO counter-offered by agreeing to put his personal money as a lead in one of the biotech startups I'd pitched (that was somewhat meritocratic because he has seen how I operate as a coder in the company and was impressed, and I think he figures, probably correctly that if I'm that good a coder then my biotech skills are even better because that's what I'm formally trained in)

Since getting here, I haven't once advanced through pure merit, and have always advanced through connections.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by jyrkesh on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @08:41PM (#16589631)
Yeah, I don't think any of your friends offered you a position because you're they're friend. They offered you a position because they knew you AND they knew you were smart/talented/a coder/whatever.

I got my first foot in the door via an internship on a referral from a friend who had interned there the year before. I had no formal credentials (just taking CS classes on the side of an Econ degree in college), but I had spent all of my math/CS classes studying with this kid. He knew I was smart and put his own ass on the line to get me an interview.

You can be successful purely by reading books in a room, writing code alone, and building some brilliant startup. (E.g. look at the CD Baby guy, what's his name). But it's SUPER unlikely. You're way better off being a social human being, building relationships/trust, and paying it back/forward to folks that do right by you when you know you deserve it.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by dnautics on Thursday March 15, 2018 @12:18AM (#16590377)
my contention is not that I got any jobs because I was a friend (or a contact of a friend) but rather that I very likely wouldn't have gotten any jobs if I weren't a contact of a friend.

A lot of the SV narratives circle around meritocracy (or other ways of 'hacking the signalling game' even. And when you say "it's SUPER unlikely", I think you're 100% correct. And so challenging the meritocracy myth is important.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by ericd on Thursday March 15, 2018 @03:16PM (#16595735)
Your story is the "meritocracy myth" in action. You demonstrating your merit to people who then vouched for you. It'd be nice if we were good at judging people objectively without knowing them for very long, but we're not, especially in very important aspects like trustworthiness.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by ericd on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @08:17PM (#16589536)
Being good at making connections and being seen as capable and trustworthy enough by your existing connections is absolutely a form of merit, an important one if you want to marshal enough people and resources and investors to build a successful company. My point was that the seemingly common mentality of "you have to be born into it, the rich only help the rich, etc" is not true, it's not a useful belief, and the counterexamples are not rare. It can help, certainly, but it's not a requirement by any stretch.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by copenja on Thursday March 15, 2018 @10:36AM (#16593188)
So, you are under the impression your connections gave you these opportunities out of friendship, not because they thought you were great for the job?
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by whatshisface on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @07:50PM (#16589415)
Arguably, your connections know more about you than your interviewers would. Maybe that's the meritocratic way to do things.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by vadimberman on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @09:07PM (#16589751)
> Larry and Sergey weren't well connected when they started, either, afaik, as most PhD students aren't.

That was 20 years ago. As much history as Larry Ellison's story in 1970s. Things have changed a lot, and the Silicon Valley today is a poster child for cronyism.

The VCs don't even bother opening "cold emails" (a ridiculous term for something that purports to be an open club). It's a herd of arrogant hipster bros who have no clue what they're doing and try to CYA by "warm introductions" (when their bet fails, they can shift the blame on a 3rd party).

The investment is not completely off-limits (my own story is a testament to that), but it's magnitudes harder to get if you're not connected, and oftentimes you have to pay through the nose to the "people who know people". I also know some rare cases when super-angels answer to complete strangers and subsequently invest, but these are exceptions rather than the rule.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by tripzilch on Friday March 16, 2018 @09:11AM (#16600382)
> This is an incredibly defeatist/self pitying line of thinking that I'm seeing more of (the world is stacked against me, you have to be born into it, etc) and is related to a lot of other self-defeating thought patterns.

Can you back up this statement? Why is it self-defeating? You put it in your post as if it somehow logically follows from the rest but it doesn't.

The claim is that people who were not born or just lucked into connections with the rich and powerful are going to have to work significantly harder or get lucky to get access to those opportunities. While the people that do, can put some work in and basically claim the opportunity or just simply try again without significant loss or even having to settle for less.

"Lots of counterexamples" don't mean anything unless you can show that there are in fact so many counterexamples that they outnumber them in a similar ratio as the people in the first group utterly outnumber the people in the latter group. Or even by a factor of ten.

But they don't and almost nobody would be having this discussion if they did.

> Maybe it's just that bad news is much easier to see, thanks to the web, so people think bad behavior is more common now, and it's turning people cynical.

And you're going to need more than those words to properly argue that this is a bad thing.

Because a lot of bad news wasn't visible enough. And people have been underestimating the magnitude of bad behaviour. And a lot of people in a lot of places in the world most definitely aren't being cynical enough.

Sure there are psychological downsides to being bombarded with bad news and negative information all day, and we need to find ways to handle that, for our collective mental health. Doesn't mean the bad news is somehow wrong or faulty.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by joering2 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:27PM (#16588447)
> Larry and Sergey weren't well connected when they started, either, afaik, as most PhD students aren't.

Doubt it. I don't think In-Q-Tel/CIA will write you a check because you just happen to have this shiny new search engine that may or may not change the world.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by vadimberman on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @08:59PM (#16589712)
In-Q-Tel is NOT CIA nor its "venture arm" contrary to the popular misconception, and it's actually one of the more open VCs.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by killaken2000 on Thursday March 15, 2018 @03:47AM (#16591057)
Are you sure. They do seem to be pretty close

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/intelligence-histor...

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by vadimberman on Thursday March 15, 2018 @05:40AM (#16591435)
100% sure. Like your source says, it's a partnership between the CIA and the private sector.

"Close" does not mean part of the organisation. The founder Norman R. Augustine isn't even a CIA person. It is somewhat similar to a spinned-off company which runs independently but has tight connections (and a contract, in case of In-Q-Tel) with the organization that spinned it off.

* In-Q-Tel (theoretically) may have other contracts and major partnerships.

* In-Q-Tel gets to pick who they invest into; CIA may express interest in a particular area or a company but In-Q-Tel manage their portfolios.

* While In-Q-Tel is non-profit, the profits flow back and the employees may profit from it. Meaning, while part of the funds come from the CIA (taxpayers), part come from the past profits.

More detail to those interested in law: https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewconten....

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by joering2 on Thursday March 15, 2018 @11:18AM (#16593565)
All this sounds like a great coverup for a CIA company :)
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by vadimberman on Thursday March 15, 2018 @09:28PM (#16597924)
Jokes aside, it's a great way of getting free money from the government without too much reporting to do.

It's fairly unusual for the US, but similar structures exist in countries trying to nurture their startup ecosystem.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by fwdpropaganda on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:30PM (#16586560)
That's extremely interesting, thanks for sharing.

Think about the decision that he had to make in 2016. He had to choose between admiting his mistake and doubling down. The downside of admitting his mistake is that he's guaranteed to get negative points; the upside is that it will minimise futures downsides. By dubling down, he's guaranteed to reduce his negative points in 2016 but exposes himself to magnified upsides (if he's proven right) and downsides (if he's proven wrong) in the future.

Now think rationally how you'd choose. The second strategy is a lot riskier so it better have better return as well! But the second strategy can only have higher reward if you either believe high probability of future upsides (i.e. Theranos might be faking till you make it, but they'll make it) or low probability of future downsides (i.e. I'm not sure what's going on, but definitely not fraud). I submit that the only way that you could come to believe either is if you're hugely misinformed about the company.

I.e. that guy is just a bit incompetent.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by sulam on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:01PM (#16587342)
I think you're ignoring the iterated nature of the game he plays. He is looking for founders to fund -- deal flow is the lifeblood of any VC. This is a signal like many other, and what it says is "As an early stage investor I absolutely have your back."
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by iopuy on Thursday March 15, 2018 @05:15PM (#16596582)
Just curious where you heard the phrase "deal flow is the lifeblood of any VC". I read that exact line last night from a book.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by sulam on Sunday March 18, 2018 @10:29AM (#16612061)
Funny. I didn’t know I was quoting anything - this may just be an obvious statement to people who have investigated the economics of venture capital.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by jonny_eh on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:15PM (#16588363)
Seems fine for entrepreneurs running scams. Honest founders would rather work with honest VCs.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by nradov on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:52PM (#16586776)
Those kind of decisions are made on a purely emotional, reactive basis without going through the rational game theory analysis you laid out. Most wealthy investors are no more rational than the rest of us.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by jjoonathan on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @02:41PM (#16587208)
An iterated game will tune emotional responses to achieve the same end.

Draper has no doubt had many chances in his life to provide negative but true and positive but false comments on his investments. If society punishes negative but true comments he's damn well going to notice and make fewer of them. If society further fails to punish positive but false comments about his investments, he's not going to invest the mental resources that would be required to avoid them.

A little experience substitutes for a lot of strategy.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by fwdpropaganda on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:33PM (#16588946)
What do you mean, "than the rest of us". That's how I think, so I have no reason to believe that other people can't do the same.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by nradov on Thursday March 15, 2018 @10:38PM (#16598164)
How sure are you that you really think that way? Most people make decisions based on emotion and intuition, then rationalize those decisions after the fact and fool themselves into believing they were rational from the start. Since human memory is so unreliable it's almost impossible to accurately determine which decision making process you actually followed.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by taurath on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:37PM (#16586628)
My understanding is that competence only matters when other people are giving you money, and doesn't matter at all when you're giving people money. I think you're really overestimating the downsides.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by fwdpropaganda on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:51PM (#16586767)
Reputation is everything in this business. I think you're underestimating the downsides.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by taurath on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:51PM (#16587720)
Every VC has 100s of failures. He just proved that he will go to bat for his startups even if they're doing fishy stuff :P
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by Coding_Cat on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @12:59PM (#16586226)
Tim Draper also stands to gain from Theranos being reviewed positively, valid product or not, being an investor.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by minimaxir on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:02PM (#16586260)
That's true, which just compounds the problem of newbie investors thinking "fake it until you make it" is OK because they get positive reinforcement from their investors.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by neom on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:39PM (#16587636)
Not to condescend, genuinely curious... you really believe Tim Draper is an n00b?
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by minimaxir on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:45PM (#16587674)
Sorry, meant "newbie entrepreneurs."
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by AlexCoventry on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:39PM (#16588540)
He's also stuck by Tezos through its organizational catastrophe, and it's looking as though that might pay off for him.

Generally, "they're family" sounds like a sensible default attitude for a VC towards their investments.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by pinewurst on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:06PM (#16586295)
Also Dan Warmenhoven, speaking for the board.

Re a previous Holmes forfeiture: "Warmenhoven added Ms. Holmes showed “a level of selflessness and grace reflecting her commitment to the company’s success.”

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by mathattack on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @02:23PM (#16587069)
Could this be due to the litigation?
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by devy on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @12:58PM (#16586216)
Someone called Tim Draper the Trump of Venture Capital[1] :)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11973420