> virtually no residents

Seeing as how there are 1.6 million of those now that would be quite a turn of events.

I didn't say it would happen overnight. That real estate is apparently more valuable as hotels and vacant investment properties than it is as housing stock. New York should embrace and exploit the fact that billionaires will pay high property taxes on empty condos, not try to fight it.

In 2011 there were 34000 homes in Manhattan that were absentee owned or rented. That's a lot, but not in comparison with the size of the city.

Also, the population in Manhattan has been going up since 1980, so it can simultaneously be true that there are more people living here and more vacant investment properties and hotel rooms.

I doubt we're in any danger of Manhattan emptying out in the next few hundred years from anything other than a nuclear attack or climate change.

Alas, the billionaires pay almost no property taxes on those condos:

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont...

Have you spent any time in Manhattan? It’s more than just Midtown. And the whole idea is smart growth that keeps cities accessible to everyone. So, no, it shouldn’t be left to become a “Venice for the super rich” or whatever.

> So, no, it shouldn’t be left to become a “Venice for the super rich” or whatever.

Why not? Because you like living there?

Kind of agree with you. Don't even think living in Manhattan if you don't pull at least 150k$. (Or be ready for some of those roomshare situations).

I'm also amazed by the average night price at Manhattan hotels. Even during normal weeks, the cheapest is well above 300$/night.

Lived in Manhattan for 6 years 2011-2017 in The East Village. Made about half that. 1 roommate. 2 bedroom. Occasionally worked a side job (tutoring) but was for extra cash more than necessity. I was working in the live music industry so I had free access to a lot of live shows around town which allowed me to save money but still do the things that make living in NYC Great.

It’s very possible.

Was kind to my landlord, and tried to fix whatever I could rather than calling her when I needed something. The goal was to have her forget I existed. Rent was raised $50 every other year which was completely manageable.

Good for you for locking in a 2011 rent, but that was 7 years ago.

Tons of people live in the Lower East Side with affordable rent. Think Chinatown, etc.

Of course that is not where people usually associate with Manhanttan..

I did a walking tour of the lower east side last year. It was run by the "tenement museum" (which is much more interesting than I expected.).

http://www.tenement.org

It turned into a talk about housing, and housing prices (we had a california developer on the walk and some english people adding perspective).

> "Lived in Manhattan for 6 years 2011-2017 in The East Village. Made about half that. 1 roommate. 2 bedroom." "It’s very possible."

Did you pay the rent yourself on that ~75k? Of course not. You paid half and your roomate the other half. Your answer is not really valid as you proved your income at the time was not enough to afford the apartment.

Well it was a two bedroom apartment...

There are many neighborhoods in Manhattan where the median income is less than half of that.

Hotel Tonight app has 10+ hotels for under $160/night (for tonight) - that's with just a casual scroll...

And add about 25% in taxes to that. Plus I can assure you that barring unusual circumstances cheap hotels (and $200 isn't exactly "cheap" in my book) in Manhattan are probably best avoided. Mind you, in my experience as a business traveler, hotel prices in San Francisco are often higher than Manhattan in any case.

I just stayed in a Fairfield Inn & Suites on 58th last month for 4 nights (including Friday / Saturday) at $590 total ($147.50 per night). It wasn't luxury by any means, but it was perfectly nice. Also, the taxes were $90 of that, so 15%, not 25%.

Fair enough. This is probably sort of an off-season (to the degree there is such a thing) for Manhattan and I tend to stay in somewhat more expensive hotels. (And there are a lot of real fleabags at the lower end but I wouldn't expect a Marriott brand to be one.) Of course it varies depending upon what's going on in a given week, but I find it's harder to get a "deal" in SF, among other cities.

Definitely agree on SF prices being worse than Manhattan (ceteris paribus).

As someone who stays in hotels regularly for work (mainly capital cities in Western Europe), I don't find Manhattan prices to be any worse than London, Paris or similar.

We try to keep overnight-accom. expenses to under $100/person/night at my startup and SF is the only place we couldn't find a comfortable, clean and well-located hotel room at that price point.

You can easily live in Manhattan for less than that, but expect half your salary going to rent, since you're also putting your car money into it.

The formula in actuality is your annual income should be 40x the monthly rent. So if your rent is $2k, you should make $80k a year pre-tax. There are a lot of studios and Jr. 1 beds for < $2k/mo. in Manhattan. Most people have roommates though, and your average 2 bdrm is like $3,200/mo., which means you only need to make around $65k/yr. This is very doable.

Last month I stayed a weekend at the Salisbury hotel right across Carnegie Hall for $180 per night.

Nothing fancy, but a surprisingly big room at a prime location.

I stayed in this hotel in 2005. Is the constant sound of car horns 24 hours a day caused by the area or is that all of Manhattan?

That's pretty normal throughout much of Manhattan. Depending upon how they face and how high you are some rooms will be quieter than others. But, yeah, much of Manhattan is a pretty noisy city.

57th is loud because it's a two way street, and a lot of emergency traffic uses it

Manhattan is terrible; It's so expensive and crowded that no one can afford to live there or visit.

Wait a second....

...moving "the rest of the city" further out step by step.