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Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by siavosh on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @11:32PM (#16542288)
I just had the horrific thought of what if some nearby interstellar event zaps all of earth with a deadly blast of fatal radiation killing all life in a matter of days. Is this possible and is there anything in the archaeological record hinting this may have happened?
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by solomatov on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @11:37PM (#16542316)
There're theories that this happened in the past: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070420-exti...
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by jake-low on Thursday March 08, 2018 @12:33AM (#16542525)
> "The movement [of the Milky Way] is not edge-on like a Frisbee," Melott noted. Instead, he said, it is flat, "like a pie in the face."

Huh, I didn't know that, and now I have a great mental picture to accompany that fact.

For anyone who skimmed and is wondering "How long before another mass extinction, according to this theory?", the answer is in the last sentence (on page 2): we've still got 10 million good years.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by lasermike026 on Thursday March 08, 2018 @09:10AM (#16544384)
We humans are going to have to do more science and engineering if we are going to survive longer in this dangerous universe.

First we must survive ourselves. The earths immediate problems are nuclear weapons and human generated climate change.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by 0kto on Thursday March 08, 2018 @02:09PM (#16546750)
The one time working inside a nuclear plant probably puts you in a environment with lower than ambient levels :)
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by markkat on Thursday March 08, 2018 @08:19AM (#16544122)
Hopefully it’s less than 1 day in length, so those on the far side of earth are shielded.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by empath75 on Thursday March 08, 2018 @10:14AM (#16544781)
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by T-A on Thursday March 08, 2018 @12:55AM (#16542623)
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by Rifu on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @11:42PM (#16542332)
Gamma ray bursts can happen at anytime![0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLykC1VN7NY

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by djsumdog on Thursday March 08, 2018 @12:00AM (#16542391)
I remember learning about this. I wonder if Earth was enveloped in such a burst, if we'd go out quickly, peacefully, like a heart attack in our sleep. Most life wiped out on our planet in an instant. It makes you wonder how many world out there contain the empty structures of civilizations that went out in an instant, with a whisper.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by bugs_bunny on Thursday March 08, 2018 @01:18AM (#16542685)
It wouldn't be quick, and it would be ugly, as explained in...

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/090403-gamm...

and

https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/how-deadly-would-a-nearby...

BUT, such events are (apparently) every billion years or so...

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by danielbarla on Thursday March 08, 2018 @06:10AM (#16543651)
I think that on average, there's a GRB close enough to us to matter once every billion years or so. However, it'd still need to be aligned perfectly to hit us, making the actual extinction event far less likely.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by stjohnswarts on Thursday March 08, 2018 @01:04AM (#16542647)
I just hope we can even find a xeno microbe to put another nail in the coffin of organized religion.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by jlebrech on Thursday March 08, 2018 @01:31AM (#16542736)
We need to start a colony on Mars as backup
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by zaarn on Thursday March 08, 2018 @03:08AM (#16543062)
Cosmic Rays that hit earth are very likely to also hit Mars, at the usual large distances they can cover a couple light hours of diameter. I would recommend colonizing at least 4 solar systems no less than 10 lightyears apart to avoid any and all possibility of a GRB/CRB lining up a shot.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by smueller1234 on Thursday March 08, 2018 @03:47AM (#16543196)
That won't help. The closest GRB we've detected was about 100M light years away, so well outside the galaxy. If we had one happen within our galaxy that's beamed towards us, I don't think that 10ly make any practical difference in the 1/r^2 attenuated flux. Also, the beams are thought to be several degrees wide, so unless it's a very close GRB (in which case we should consider other problems), it's also unlikely that 10ly would move is out of the beam.

Source: former astrophysicist. Also if I remember correctly, the Wikipedia article on grbs is actually decent. (Edit: overstated things - need coffee, I suppose)

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by Beltiras on Thursday March 08, 2018 @06:12AM (#16543655)
How does one relinquish one's credentials as an astrophysicist? If you have the education and can do the math, is it not a title you bear for life?
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by smueller1234 on Thursday March 08, 2018 @10:20AM (#16544817)
I always thought of it as a profession, not a title.

I do have a degree, though, so it's purely a matter of perspective.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by zaarn on Thursday March 08, 2018 @07:46AM (#16543992)
I would guess and say "changed field", so Astrophysics is no longer primary.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by Beltiras on Thursday March 08, 2018 @08:16AM (#16544103)
Still an astrophysicist. I'm a Computer Scientist. I won't cease being one even if I change professions, I will just be whatever I become in addition to a CS.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by cozzyd on Thursday March 08, 2018 @01:50AM (#16542799)
Mars has no magnetic field and very little atmosphere, which makes it a terrible place to avoid cosmic rays.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by Grasshoppeh on Thursday March 08, 2018 @08:05AM (#16544065)
This is true and possibly one reason I think moons are a better bet for cosmic colonization.

Mars, venus, and mercury have next to no field, earth has a moderate field, and all our gas giants have very strong fields.

Some of the gas giant moons are attractive since the gravitational effects on the moons can create geo-thermal energy. Pair a large planet with a strong magnetic field and energy created from gravity and we might have something interesting worth exploring.

I do not think this is perfect though, due to the size of our atmosphere we are shielded from meteorites,, this might not be the case of these moons. We would need to consider making some way to protect ourselves like harvesting ore from surrounding areas. Even then this might not stop large collisions.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by bap on Thursday March 08, 2018 @02:24AM (#16542917)
So... you're saying Elon needs to colonize Venus too.. ?
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by greglindahl on Thursday March 08, 2018 @02:21AM (#16542905)
... and because of these first 2 facts will probably have living quarters underground. Which is a good way to avoid cosmic rays.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by Scarblac on Thursday March 08, 2018 @03:38AM (#16543168)
Then it seems slightly easier to just have some people living underground here on earth.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by gambiting on Thursday March 08, 2018 @03:45AM (#16543193)
You know what's even better than dirt at stopping radiation? Water. And we have lots of it. 10km of water at the bottom of the Mariana trench should stop any amount of radiation that could hit Earth.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by thaumasiotes on Thursday March 08, 2018 @04:00AM (#16543238)
On the other hand, we can live underground, but we can't live underwater.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by gambiting on Thursday March 08, 2018 @04:02AM (#16543242)
Both require living in some sort of pressurized container, unless you assume we could live in underground caves(but those can't be very deep so probably not good enough). Obviously the underwater one would require more engineering, but probably still less than one needed for Mars.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by thaumasiotes on Thursday March 08, 2018 @04:32AM (#16543340)
That depends on your perspective. We have the technology to go to Mars right now; we do not have the technology to go to the bottom of the Marianas Trench. It is a much more hostile environment than Mars is.

However, if you assumed that we were able to go the bottom of the ocean, transporting supplies there would be much easier than transporting supplies to Mars.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by jylam on Thursday March 08, 2018 @05:00AM (#16543435)
we do not have the technology to go to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

Except we reached it four times since 1960 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_Trench#Descents

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by avian on Thursday March 08, 2018 @01:51AM (#16542804)
Mars colony helps with asteroid impacts. For interstellar events, like gamma ray bursts, distance between Earth and Mars makes no difference.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by jlebrech on Saturday March 10, 2018 @01:05PM (#16559453)
that's assuming the centre of the burst is earth or the sun, but a glancing ray could kill all life on earth and still not touch mars?
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by spodek on Thursday March 08, 2018 @07:27AM (#16543912)
Why do nerds and geeks think we can do in space what we haven't on Earth? https://www.inc.com/joshua-spodek/why-do-nerds-geeks-think-w...

My Inc. article asks why we think we will solve problems off Earth that we haven't on Earth. Or if we think we can solve them there, why don't we solve them here first?

If we want to get to Mars, probably the best start is to solve the problems we have here first.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by bryananderson on Thursday March 08, 2018 @09:31AM (#16544518)
The problem with this argument is that it is a false choice. We do not need to choose between fixing our planet and expanding into space. There are seven billion of us, and collectively we’re not that bad at multitasking.

Furthermore, it is a straw man, because nobody actually believes that we should give up on Earth. You cited a number of headlines attributing this position to people like Elon Musk and Steven Hawking, when a quick reading of their actual quotes shows that they do not actually say what the headlines claim (Musk also runs a clean energy company for Pete’s sake—doesn’t sound like he wants to give up on Earth). I really want to believe that you wrote your article in good faith, but that means I must believe you did not read the articles you linked as evidence.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by pluma on Thursday March 08, 2018 @08:32AM (#16544181)
Fixing problems on Earth vs colonising Mars is the difference between carefully maintaining your family PC and buying a second one so you still have a working one when the first one breaks down.

Redundancy doesn't fix problems but it cushions the failure case. There are numerous ways Earth could be wiped out in a way we can't defend against.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by michrassena on Thursday March 08, 2018 @09:59AM (#16544669)
I see this phenomenon quite a lot, even on HN. Supposing we find a planet that is conducive to life, how can we avoid exporting all of humanity's cultural and biological baggage to that new civilization? Aside from the exploitation and near-genocide that took place in the Western hemisphere, how is it really any different that the opening up of those continents, but with a bigger ocean between? I've seen other discussions try to route around this question by talking about Mars or some other hostile environment as perfect for the type of co-operative commune they imagine humanity could be, one where people must rely on each other or die. I don't see a qualitative difference between that environment and the deserts of the American West, where the climate was harsh and water scarce.

Those migrations didn't bring utopia, either to the participants or the rest of humanity.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by bryananderson on Thursday March 08, 2018 @10:20AM (#16544819)
I agree that utopian predictions have a long history of failure and should be taken with a Mars-sized grain of salt. However, I would argue that the difference is that there is not likely to be complex life on Mars or any other location in our solar system. This makes it quite a bit different from the North American example, in which immense suffering was inflicted upon the existing inhabitants of the region. If any planet or moon was found to contain life-forms capable of experiencing suffering, I and (hopefully) most people would be against human settlement there.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by snowwrestler on Thursday March 08, 2018 @10:45AM (#16545005)
Not a significant difference in safety between Mars and Earth when it comes to interstellar sources of radiation. In fact Mars lacks a magnetic field and an atmosphere, two useful radiation shields here on Earth.

We'd do better to build out some element of human society underground, if interstellar radiation is our fear.

Actually, water is very good at stopping radiation, so if there was a massive gamma ray burst that killed all surface life on Earth, some small groups of humans would survive: deployed submarine crews.

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by brownbat on Friday March 09, 2018 @07:40PM (#16556367)
Sealabs pose novel engineering challenges, could provide experiments in sustainable enclosed habitats, wouldn't risk microgravity or radiation, but would risk high pressures.

They'd also help species survivability in the event of some extinction-level asteroids, climate change, or interstellar radiation.

I think it's an even money bet whether it'd be easier to build a comfortable habitat for x people underwater or in space (for most definitions of comfort, x, and space).

Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by chb on Thursday March 08, 2018 @06:42AM (#16543749)
Assuming the species is worth saving.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by akiru on Thursday March 08, 2018 @07:14AM (#16543856)
Humans not worth reaching Kardashev type II or III ? Worth only for thinking about that.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by DennisP on Thursday March 08, 2018 @06:50AM (#16543772)
I'm hoping humans colonize space with entire ecosystems, not just ourselves.
Re:The Worsening Cosmic Ray Situation by NoGravitas on Thursday March 08, 2018 @10:24AM (#16544852)
It's unlikely that humans could colonize space without entire ecosystems. If that (http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/10/how_habi...)