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Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by jra_samba on Saturday March 03, 2018 @04:35PM (#16511728)
Flying cars/taxis will never be a widespread thing for the public (IMHO).

The weight of a car is an excellent kinetic energy weapon. Fly over soft target, detonate something on-board to disable safety features and you have the poor-man(terrorist?)'s remote-kill drone.

Makes driving trucks into crowded streets look positively medieval.

The danger of this far outweighs any possible benefits.

Flying cars will become a thing, but stay heavily regulated and a rich-person's toy.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by ShorsHammer on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:45PM (#16512135)
Any drone with over 8 propellers already has amazing redundancy today using off the shelf consumer products.

Loss of multiple rotors is perfectly manageable.

Add variable pitch blades and you get autorotation ability to handle total power loss.

Worrying about the threats posed is silly. A truck driven by a maniac still can do far more damage. No one is proposing a truck ban.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by SlowBro on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:58PM (#16512212)
Many drones available today, some of them costing less than USD $1000, could become the kind of flying weapon jra_samba worries about. I just don't think this is a very big concern.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by jra_samba on Saturday March 03, 2018 @10:56PM (#16513177)
Drones don't weigh enough to be a kinetic energy weapon. You'd have to strap a bomb to them (which I believe is getting very popular in certain parts of the world already).

A 'flying car' is heavy enough to do large amounts damage just by falling out of the sky. Doesn't have to have anyone riding in it to blow themselves up at the right time, a cell-phone triggered bomb will do just as well.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by SlowBro on Sunday March 04, 2018 @11:30AM (#16515258)
Many drones can carry many kg of load. Any number of heavy (e.g. kinetic) or explosive payloads are an option.

Molotov cocktail delivery vehicle? Why not? Requires a remote control lighter and remote release. How about dropping steel rebar? Needs tail fins for directional stability and some testing but that would be plenty troublesome. Drone mounted pistols are already here. (YouTube them.)

And yet the skies are considered safe enough today. I just think there are bigger concerns out there.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by ShorsHammer on Saturday March 03, 2018 @09:03PM (#16512860)
Department13 is where it's at for anyone interested in counterdrone tech. Bigup to dotslash et al.

https://department13.com

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by nradov on Saturday March 03, 2018 @10:38PM (#16513127)
You're never going to get auto-rotation ability out of an aircraft like that. Even with variable pitch the rotors have insufficient mass.

The only practical option is independent dual redundant power systems so that one failure can't take out more than half the propellers. Plus a rocket assisted ballistic recovery parachute to allow a (mostly) survivable crash landing in case of a catastrophic failure. Of course there will still be some rare failure modes where a parachute won't be sufficient.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by ShorsHammer on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:45PM (#16513307)
Autorotation is an immutable property of variable pitch rotors. Whether it can land properly without hurting a person is a physics/biology problem

3rd answer down :)

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/37360/can-a-pas...

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by 908087 on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:12PM (#16515421)
Being fixed-pitch isn't the only thing that makes autorotation on these impossible.

Rotor system inertia is incredibly important in autorotation, and this fact will pretty much make autorotation in quad+-rotor aircraft a no-go.

The only option here is a ballistic parachute / BRS, and personally that's not a system I'd stake my life on.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by nharada on Saturday March 03, 2018 @07:04PM (#16512475)
You're suggesting someone would fly in one of these, and exactly at the right moment detonate a bomb to cause it to fall from the sky onto someone? How in the world would they aim the falling vehicle? It's not like they're gonna have control of the thing. And even in this case, why not just use the bomb to blow someone up instead of taking it onto a plane to possibly drop it on someone? This just feels...so unlikely.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by jra_samba on Saturday March 03, 2018 @10:57PM (#16513182)
No, that's silly. No one needs to fly it, use a cell phone triggered explosive device. That way none of the bombers friends need get hurt.

After all such cars will have to be self-flying. You're surely not suggesting the flying car using public would need to get a pilots license before flying in one ? That would already mean they're only a rich persons toy.

If the target is big enough (sports stadium for example) you.dont need to aim it. And as to why use a flying car instead of going there, I would have thought that was obvious. You can drop a car on people from a distance. Don't need to be there.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by nharada on Sunday March 04, 2018 @09:33PM (#16518292)
So you order a flying car to take you from A to B, where you've chosen a route that you know flies over your target (presuming big populated targets aren't routed around automatically). Then you load explosives on-board instead of yourself, along with a real time video streaming setup so you know exactly when to trigger the bomb (since at 200 mph you have a window of maybe a second or two). If all works perfectly, you drop the vehicle into the bleachers, killing maybe a dozen people max?

I guess I don't feel that this will be the reason flying cars aren't adopted. In my mind, the barriers are almost entirely economics.

It's worth mentioning also that there seems to be a plan to have pilots for these programs in the near term. Take a look at Uber's Elevate concept video, there's a pilot on-board.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by IntronExon on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:18PM (#16513242)
A few thoughts, positive and negative.

First, these cars would be easy targets for AA batteries. I would have to assume thst getting to close to a stadium full of people in one would lead to a shoot down, or remote shutdown.

Second, why bombs? What you can pack into a small aircraft is not the makings of a really impressive bomb, unless you have military grade high explosives. Now on the other hand, you could pack loads of nerve agents, chlorine, vessicants, or biological agents into one.

Third, you’d have to know enough about the hardware and software to modify it to fly empty, and violate restricted airspace. That might be a hell of a barrier to entry.

Fourth, these things could be heavily networked to function, so a rogue taxi could be taken over remotely, because it’s already remotely controlled.

Fifth, does the FBI care why you’re building a bomb or milling anthrax? Whatever your delivery system, they’re monitoring precursors and equipment you’d need. Air taxi, truck, drone, dudes with backpacks... the delivery system isn’t the chokepoint.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by redspectre on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:03PM (#16511914)
Isn't it sad that we can't have an exciting new technology because the threat that some outsider will blow themselves up? Is there really nothing we can do about this, either now, or in the future?
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by tdb7893 on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:29PM (#16512047)
Very few people actually blow themselves up (terrorism is really really low on the list of the most common causes of death) so I doubt that it will be why we don't have flying cars.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by jra_samba on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:06PM (#16513203)
Self driving flying cars (which will be essential for mass market adoption) make an excellent weapon. No one needs to blow themselves up, just the car.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by yeahsure on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:54AM (#16513483)
As far as I know terrorists have no problem blowing themselves up.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by cmurf on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:00PM (#16512219)
Maybe. There's a strong correlation between military occupations and terrorism, in particular when the use of force is asymmetric. http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/10/18/its-the-occupation-stupi...
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by lostmsu on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:17PM (#16512285)
I am not actually suggesting to do it, but you could blow up all outsiders.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by gowld on Saturday March 03, 2018 @09:30PM (#16512941)
Who would be left inside?
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by dwaltrip on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:51PM (#16512431)
It isn't only "outsiders" who do destructive acts.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by stctgion on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:16PM (#16511980)
Helicopters fit this description too
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by jra_samba on Saturday March 03, 2018 @10:53PM (#16513168)
Yes, and flying a helicopter is heavily regulated just like an airplane. It's the same reason you don't see regular car owners operating their own helicopter (unless as I said they're very rich).
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by adjkant on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:55PM (#16512197)
And how often does the average person ride in one of those?
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by nradov on Saturday March 03, 2018 @10:40PM (#16513135)
Anyone who can scrape together a few hundred dollars can take a short helicopter tour ride. It's pretty common in tourist areas.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by jra_samba on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:08PM (#16513212)
Yes, but they are in the helicopter, so won't want to blow it up.

The killer combination is self-flying cars (which as I said will be a prerequisite for mass adoption). No one needs ride it for it to be a weapon, unlike a helicopter.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by zhoujianfu on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:26PM (#16512033)
They might just require something like tsa precheck and perhaps a metal detector at the “stations”.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by gowld on Saturday March 03, 2018 @09:30PM (#16512943)
Why? people who can afford to fly privately today are already exempt from TSA. Only plebes go through TSA checks.
Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by cmurf on Sunday March 04, 2018 @01:48PM (#16515903)
FAR §91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command. (a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

and

FAR §135.125 Aircraft security. Certificate holders conducting operators conducting operations under this part must comply with the applicable security requirements in 49 CFR chapter XII.

The first applies to all flights, the second applies to air taxi flights. Equivalents for flying taxis are indicated, but it's a whole separate paradigm. Who is the pilot in command of an autonomous flying taxi? That has very clear implications today with human pilots. It's really vague what that thing is in a pilotless paradigm.

There's probably a distinction between rides with strangers and rides with friends and family. If I know everyone in my flying taxi, that's probably more like a FAR 91 flight, and maybe it's sane to have a minimal security paradigm. If there are strangers on the flight, that's trending toward FAR 135 requirement.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by lsc on Saturday March 03, 2018 @09:55PM (#16513007)
Eh, if you change this to the fear of this far outweighs any possible benefits, I'd agree; I mean, flying using current technology is far safer than driving, but we've by law severely limited the usefulness of air travel because people are somehow more scared of crazies in airplanes than crazies (or incompetents; it's difficult to tell) in cars, even though the latter clearly injures and kills far more people.

Our current 'arrive two hours early' security screening has cost many lives simply because it tilts the drive/fly equation towards driving, which is dramatically more dangerous.

That said, you are probably right about the net effect.

Re:Flying Taxis May Be Years Away, but the Groundwork Is Acc... by em3rgent0rdr on Saturday March 03, 2018 @10:16PM (#16513071)
> Our current 'arrive two hours early'

This. Considering about 800 million passengers per year in US, that's 800 million extra hours of awake human that the additional hour to handle security requirements suck up. Considering a 79 year lifespan per human (totaling 461360 awake hours), that's around 1734 human lives wasted per year in US. 9/11 only killed 2996 people, of average age 40, so roughtly could be said that the extra hour of airport security in US costs a 9/11 every year. (I'll admit, maybe people having a friendly chat in the secutiry line or otherwise enjoy the extra time in the airport terminal, so not exactly apples-to-apples comparison).