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Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by antichronology on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @01:55PM (#16476628)
I wonder if it will have some sort of long term impact on the economy. Is there a way of measuring relative government authoritarianism on economic development of a nation?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:23PM (#16477491)
Political stability encourages growth [1]. The form of government seems largely irrelevant [2]. China is moving from a stable if novel mode (small-group democratic dictatorship) to an unstable mode (single-leader dictatorship).

[1] https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/4553024/alesina_...

[2] https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257/jep.7.3.51

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by woodandsteel on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @08:32PM (#16479935)
>Political stability encourages growth

Absolutely. That is why the US, thanks to having a multi-party democracy, never got anywhere with the industrial revolution. And that is why Putin's Russia is leading the world in technological innovation and economic growth.

Of course, if when you say "political stability" you mean the absence of things like civil wars and coups, well yes, that really helps economic growth. But I don't think Xi is making himself dictator-for-life because China is on the verge of that sort of instability.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by woolvalley on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @01:56PM (#16476646)
China was already an authoritarian nation, how much of an effective difference would this make?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by ilamont on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:05PM (#16476740)
When strongman-based cults of personality (real or wannabe) appoint themselves ruler for life, policy can go off the rails. Wars, purges, persecution of minority groups, and civil unrest are more likely. Corrupt systems of checks and balances, which may have already been weak, slide ever further.

Mao, Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Hitler, Mussolini, Chiang Kai-Shek ... a few of these strongmen presided over brief periods of spectacular economic growth, but always under unsustainable conditions. Many citizens (and the citizens of neighboring countries) paid a terrible price.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:33PM (#16477033)
And then there's Singapore. Ruled by an authoritarian, gum hating despot who provides nice civic infrastructure for the populace.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by ericd on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:12PM (#16477366)
When you have a great king, it's among the best forms of government. The problem is that that great king's successor is probably not also great, and under a bad ruler, it's among the worst forms of government, and that bad king can last for your entire lifetime.

It's never spectacularly efficient, but the US' form of democracy is meant to be much lower variance. I think it's a good tradeoff.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by liberte82 on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:24PM (#16477504)
> When you have a great king, it's among the best forms of government.

citation needed

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:37PM (#16478179)
Singapore, as kevin_thibedeaux said.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by ericd on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:29PM (#16477558)
What kind of citation would you put there?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by aoner on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @06:09PM (#16478981)
King of Bhutan?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by narrator on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:47PM (#16477156)
With a dictatorship it really depends on the competence of the leadership. This is not a robust strategy for organizing human civilizations.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by jack9 on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:14PM (#16477395)
Really? Because stable singular hierarchies is exactly how we evolved to have civilization.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by disgruntledphd2 on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:27PM (#16478097)
Not sure if I would agree, given that estimates suggest that homo sapiens had evolved approx 400k years ago, and most of recorded history (with the somewhat stable hierarchies) lasts, at most, 20k years. So potentially much of recorded history, but certainly not proven to be necessary for evolution.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:37PM (#16477070)
Typo there with Chavez? Democratically elected and rose the quality of life of Venezuela.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by zentiggr on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:07PM (#16477324)
Typo there with _rose_ quality of life in Venezuela?

Pretty sure we've watched that 'democratic' experiment fail spectacularly, at least what news I know of the economy and living conditions in general seem very poor at best. Failed state comes to mind.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:46PM (#16477712)
What is the link between Chavez's policies and Venezuela's current economic condition?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by princekolt on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:16PM (#16477987)
Maduro served both as a Foreign Affairs Minister and as a Vice President under Chavez. He is basically maintaining the government project of Chavez.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by lovich on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:29PM (#16478117)
What's the link between yesterday and today?

Chavez was the previous ruler and hasn't been gone so long that the systems he set up have been washed away by time

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:38PM (#16478188)
The self exploding system just add water. Really neat innovator this Chavez guy!
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by phyller on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:52PM (#16477202)
He might have raised the quality of life temporarily (I'm not sure even about that), but what is happening now in Venezuela was practically inevitable. You might be warmer for a little while as you take apart your house and burn it piece by piece, but in the end you will more assuredly freeze. In my opinion, it was a great tragedy that Chavez is not still alive today. Now people can say ridiculous things like this. If he was alive today, Venezuela would still be collapsing and it would be clear whose fault it was.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:52PM (#16477756)
Yes. Perhaps it was inevitable. For what reasons though?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by protoplant on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:56PM (#16478367)
Economists believe that hyperinflations are caused by large persistent government deficits financed primarily by money creation (rather than by borrowing or by increasing taxation). --wikipedia.

Eli5 Their economy was mostly oil, they seized assets of oil companies extracting it. People left then oil crashed and they had too many promises to pay for

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @05:25PM (#16478594)
Indeed nationalization of national resources as an explanation of economic collapse is something a five year old would say.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by protoplant on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @05:58PM (#16478878)
It was not simply that they "nationalized oil" in my example, as the resources we're already state owned. You seem to not be serious with your comments.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @06:34PM (#16479196)
Sorry I'm just trying to understand the five year old's argument. "Their economy was mostly oil, they seized assets of oil companies extracting it." Who is "they" in this sentence and how was all this inevitable?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by protoplant on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @07:14PM (#16479472)
Okay a good page that goes into depth is history of Venezuela oil Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oi...

The Chávez administration used high oil prices in the 2000s on his populist policies and to gain support from voters. The social works initiated by Chávez's government relied on oil products, the keystone of the Venezuelan economy, with Chávez's administration suffering from Dutch disease as a result.

When prices collapsed they had all eggs in one basket.

Now what was seized and not discussed in the wiki was oil platforms from foreign companies. Sometimes instead of Chavez paying a debt, he would seize the platform and "nationalize it" so this caused foreign companies to be wary of investing.

https://books.google.com/books?id=TFY_DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA116&lpg=...

On to hyperinflation

To assuage the oil price decline which began back in June 2014 and continues through to today, President Maduro printed more currency,

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:15PM (#16480123)
We both can agree that the pdvsa is incredibly corrupt and post Chavez politics have been a shit show. Whether this is a necessary result from nationalization is not an easily answered question but I'm glad you actually voiced an opinion on the issue besides just nationalization is bad. Cheers.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by phyller on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @07:13PM (#16479460)
First ad hominem attacks don't help your point. Second, Google can help you out with some of your questions. Third, "they" is Chavez and his government. Chavez was socialist, socialism implies that the government takes over production from capitalists.

How was all this inevitable? When a government doesn't like that private companies are making money, and steal their property then replace skilled managers with party cronies, maybe things aren't going to work out so well. Maybe other companies will be afraid to invest in the country. So yea, the country gets a short-term boost from acquiring billions of dollars of assets, then all the profits that used to go to the company go to the state. But then it doesn't grow or handle problems properly because no one has the same incentive to work hard and innovate.

If the price of toilet paper is high in America, there are dozens of companies that are going to compete to get that profit, supply will rise and the price will drop. In Chavez's Venezuala, the toilet paper companies get nationalized, and government bureaucrats do their best to make and distribute enough toilet paper. Or maybe they don't and just report that they are doing a good job.

Here's a short list from 2012 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nation... and you can be sure there were many companies that bent over backwards to comply with governmental demands to avoid being nationalized. It turns out the Venezuelan government, like most other governments, is not good at managing production and providing a prosperous economy without a free market. And when regulations mean a company (for example a toilet paper company) can't make a profit to create what they are selling, they can't make enough of it, and soon they won't be able to make any of it.

It's all about human nature and incentives, and yes most 5 year olds understand that.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:18PM (#16480140)
Yes all socialist governments are doomed to fail. Every leftist thinker has the IQ of a five year old(starting to like this meme). Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by protoplant on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:43PM (#16480259)
The eli5 is just a Reddit forum thing to keep jargon and length down, does not mean you have a 5 year old mind.

A question would be eli5 lambda calculus. Actually if there is an eli5 for that it would be fun to read.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by ilamont on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:47PM (#16477160)
Hitler came to power on top of a democratic system, too (IIRC, by leveraging political alliances and grassroots violence in the pre-1933 parliamentary system). He surely improved the quality of life for the Nazi base in the mid-30s after he took power.

Didn't stop him from dismantling democratic institutions, eliminating all political rivals, invading his neighbors, and murdering millions of people.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:44PM (#16477691)
Chavez did none of these things. Is your knowledge of history so shallow that you must bring up Hitler appro to nothing every chance that you get?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @04:50PM (#16478302)
Chavez definitely dismantled democracy in Venezuela. (If you want to be technical, he started the project, and Maduro finished it.)

Specifically, vote count manipulation, the Supreme Court refusing to allow opposition legislatures to be seated, the constitutional committee stripping the legislature of its power... that's dismantling democracy.

[dead]
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by alsetmusic on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @07:13PM (#16479457)
> Your lie is easily disproved with a bit of research and I encourage readers to do so.

When you call someone a liar, the onus is on you to do the research and present your case for others. Asking everyone else to do the research doesn’t cut it. Your position should include citations that provide evidence that what you say is correct. What you have achieved here is essentially name-calling.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by balthasar on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:53PM (#16480305)
An unsubstantiated claim doesn't require a well researched counter. The suggestion to do research is just that a suggestion. I find that when dealing with posts written by people who are uninformed or have the intention of misinformation that it is important to point out that the issue is contested. If someone is lying then a bit of research will prove that and we can all be in agreement. If the subject isn't worth bothering with then my accusation surely can't be bothered with either.
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday March 01, 2018 @04:08PM (#16496356)
There is a rather large difference between "your claim is wrong" and "you are lying". Feel free to state that my claim is wrong. If I didn't supply evidence, feel free to state without evidence that my claim is wrong. (Evidence talks louder than non-evidence, though, so if you supply some, that's a better refutation than simply saying that I was wrong.)

Saying that someone is lying is different. That's an attack on their character. You should do that very rarely, and only where you are sure. (Even better, only where you can prove that they are deliberately lying. Yes, that's a very high bar. Yes, that's how rarely you should make that charge.)

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by leggomylibro on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:46PM (#16477153)
What happened when Mao unilaterally declared that ploughshares should be melted down for the good of the economy?

I'm not a huge fan of authoritarian systems, but individual people are even more fallible. Laying decision-making power on one individual is a recipe for failure; they're going to be wrong eventually, and chances are people will be reluctant to speak out against their god-emperor when that happens in a system where power is so ridiculously centralized.

Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by antichronology on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @02:01PM (#16476692)
provide an economic argument for not implementing additional authoritarian policies. Seems that these decisions are incredibly hard to measure. For example how much did Turkey's economy suffer from the previous failed coup?
Re:China’s web censors go into overdrive as President Xi Jin... by martimarkov on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @03:32PM (#16477581)
That for me personally only strengthens my belief that it was orchestrated.