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Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by awestroke on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:43AM (#16473681)
This is great news.

There are two use cases that particularly excite me:

* For commuters, get a ride from your own vehicle to work, and then have it park cheaply outside of town (instead of paying for a parking spot close to work, which is common where I live).

* Have a self-driving van with a bed, have it drive you to a skiing resort while you sleep. Go to sleep in the car Friday night, have it drive at safe speeds using smaller roads, wake up where you wanted to go. Go to bed Sunday evening, wake up back at home. Shower, dress, go to work.

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by dx034 on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:44AM (#16473691)
> For commuters, get a ride from your own vehicle to work, and then have it park cheaply outside of town (instead of paying for a parking spot close to work, which is common where I live).

Not sure if I'm excited about that. This would double the traffic during rush hour. I'd sincerely hope they introduce a tax on vehicles driven without driver.

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by dtech on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:54AM (#16473791)
Rush hour traffic is usually the heaviest in a single direction, the empty self-driving cars would mostly be going into the other direction.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by Piskvorrr on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @10:05AM (#16473899)
...if there's ten of them. If there's 1000 of them, now the rush hour traffic is both ways. That is the expected scenario, not "I have my very special car like nobody else has."
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by adrianmonk on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @04:22AM (#16481789)
The self-driving cars are not in a hurry to get to their parking space. The commuters don't want to be late for a meeting, but the self-driving cars don't care about being late for a parking space.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by Piskvorrr on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @06:49AM (#16482333)
Yes, and...? Doesn't change the fact that they're creating congestion (not only for themselves but also for other road users); plus the return trip can be expected to be "pick me up at $location at $time", which is again a scheduling problem.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by xattt on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:58AM (#16473828)
Clearly, the solution is to let self-driving cars drive into town on the opposite side of the road.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by delecti on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @10:10AM (#16473967)
Rush hour traffic in that single direction might get heavier if the drivers of single occupant cars can do other things with their time. It simultaneously removes some of the disincentive of a long commute, and also removes much of the benefit of not being the driver.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by jcranmer on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @10:00AM (#16473847)
One common mitigation for rush hour traffic is to steal some lanes from the reverse-flow traffic to give more capacity for peak-flow traffic.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by alphamonster on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @12:16PM (#16475524)
Not if the route is well designed. One of my colleagues at Stanford developed an algorithm which can `rebalance' without increasing congestion: https://asl.stanford.edu/wp-content/papercite-data/pdf/Rossi...
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by dx034 on Thursday March 01, 2018 @02:45AM (#16490334)
That might work in theory but I doubt it'd work in practice. You already now get Google Maps congestion of small roads that happen to be the fastest according to Google maps. I don't think vendors will be able to develop a fleet that intelligently coordinates routes. Especially because that'd make routes of some cars slower, not something people would accept.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by joshstrange on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @01:06PM (#16476118)
> I'd sincerely hope they introduce a tax on vehicles driven without driver.

I sincerely hope they do the exact opposite. Taxes are often added to behaviors the state wants to limit (ie. Sin tax on Alcohol/Cigarettes/etc), it would be in everyone's best interest to convert to driverless cars so the tax should be on people without driverless cars and/or more importantly on people who don't carpool.

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by dx034 on Thursday March 01, 2018 @02:44AM (#16490330)
Sorry, I meant empty cars. Even though that would create a job market where you pay people to sit in a car to avoid taxes (hire teenagers for that?), so maybe just tax cars by miles driven instead of on a fixed basis.

The only reason we don't tax by usage is because we don't have the data. If cars have that data, it would be by far the superior system. Why tax someone driving 100mi the same as someone driving 100k miles?

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by xigency on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @01:17PM (#16476258)
I think the intention was to say self-driving vehicles with no passengers, though I could be wrong.

The reason being that a car driving itself around with no one in it is essentially wasting resources and spewing out emissions. The example comes up often in what-ifs about self-driving cars.

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by joshstrange on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @01:22PM (#16476311)
Ahh, well that I can get behind IF they are in congested traffic because one of the big advantages of driverless cars is mine can drop me off at work then go park in a charging garage across town. I wouldn't want to be taxed for my car driving on a wide-open road to a more efficient location.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by chillacy on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @05:21PM (#16478567)
You'll still pay for it indirectly through the cost of gas and putting miles on your car though. Which is the ideal way to "tax" usage anyways.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by zjaffee on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @06:58PM (#16479364)
What we really need to do is encourage self driving cars as being a form of shared transit, not something that people sleep in, with massive taxes on usage not involving high occupancy.

Self driving vehicles allow ride-sharing to be far more effective as you won't have to pay for the cost of the driver. Right now bus routes are studied, and are used less often than they could be due to the last mile problem, and should we grow the scale of HOV lanes, ride sharing will be further encouraged. We could take a fleet of minibuses and focus on the real time optimization problem, rather than making car travel more luxurious but also make congestion far worse.

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by nashashmi on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @08:47PM (#16479994)
Maybe they could be forced to take the slow route. Or lane.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by Hello71 on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:47AM (#16473722)
this would in fact decrease the traffic for two reasons:

1. self-driving cars make more efficient use of the roadway

2. parking lots could (partially) be converted into roadway, or even better, actual business, so there will be less road to "outside of town".

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by ginko on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:51AM (#16473769)
Both leading to more cars on the road, i.e. more traffic
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by dx034 on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @09:54AM (#16473795)
Converting on-street parking can help to increase capacity but I don't think you can convert a lot of parking lots into roads. And where real estate prices are high, they're often underground anyway. Making more efficient use of the roadway is great but they'll probably not more than double efficiency (as long as not all cars are self driving and the road is also used by pedestrians), so doubling the number of trips will still increase congestion.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by Sharlin on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @10:06AM (#16473909)
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by aleksei on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @10:16AM (#16474037)
Regarding your first point, would it have to be your own car? Not to derail the conversation into whether or not you should actually own a self-driving car, but what if you just used a shared car for your commute?

It would mean the car doesn't have to drive off to park somewhere, but to just go pick up the next person. I'd imagine it would be possible to have enough cars on the road so the wait is negligible, but still have markedly less cars on the road. Might this be a realistic future?

Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by danielbln on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @11:17AM (#16474814)
In before the usual "imagine how people would treat those cars": car sharing already exists in many cities, and the driver is usually asked before starting the journey if the vehicle is clean, and if it isn't, the previous driver will be billed/fined, so that's a solved problem.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by tialaramex on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @10:10AM (#16473964)
Park-and-ride schemes are a much more sensible solution to the former. Public transit runs at high frequencies from parking places on the outskirts into the city centre. You park, walk a short distance to a tram stop, bus stop or whatever, get on, ride to work in the city. In the evening you reverse the process. The density possible is much higher with this approach than if everybody has a car, even a self-driving one.
Re:California to allow testing of self-driving cars without ... by gascan on Tuesday February 27, 2018 @07:05PM (#16479404)
have it drive you to a skiing resort while you sleep

Everyone within ten hours of a ski resort has already thought of that. Prepare for ski traffic to get several times worse, and lift lines to stretch up the mountain.

Food, lift tickets, etc will also probably get more expensive if it becomes easier to avoid lodging, which is a critical revenue component of functioning ski towns.