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Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by CalRobert on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:14AM (#16429179)
I have little love for an institution that profits off dreams and naivete and destroys lives with un-dischargeable debt. But hey, at least the football coach is rich and the gym is fancy! Also in retrospect I learned almost nothing useful in college. Loads on my own time, though.

Also, how the hell is college so damn expensive when the people teaching classes are paid 12 bucks an hour because they're "adjuncts"?? where tf is the money going?? (see above)

Exception: my local junior college was great, and reasonably priced. If you want to do uni, go to jc and then to europe.

Oh. Also there's a whole university cargo cult. It made some baby boomers wealthy so obviously the solution is for EVERYONE to go to college.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by tenpies on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:41AM (#16429333)
> Also, how the hell is college so damn expensive when the people teaching classes are paid 12 bucks an hour because they're "adjuncts"?? where tf is the money going?? (see above)

A non-trivial portion goes to legal expenses and risk management. It started with the concept of in loco parentis (in the place of the parent). University students stopped being adults and became children.

Obama's interpretation of Title IX was also catastrophic for expenses. All of a sudden you had to set up your own internal pseudo-court system and have an entire mechanism for handling even the most dubious of accusations. These things are not free.

This has snowballed into other pseudo-legal aspects and the social justice movement is just monumentally expensive to deal with. It's not a question of if a #metoo incident happens on your campus, it's a matter when. What steps did you take to prevent it? What staff do you have in place to react?

And the worst is that once you've hired these staff they're there forever. There will never will a point of mission accomplished, perfect equity, or an environment sufficiently free of even the smallest of nano-harassments for a university to rid itself of this burden.

Don't get me wrong, there's a country club and sports team aspect to a lot of university expenses, but the primary purpose of most universities is not education, research, or anything along those lines - it's to avoid getting sued into oblivion.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by davidmr on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @11:15AM (#16430507)
I’m sorry, but without some sort of citation from a reputable source, I just don’t buy this as a contributing factor at all and call BS.

I spent years as a student and working at a large research University and let’s be very, very generous and say that there were 30 people detailed to this “#metoo incident” mitigation and action squad. Of the thousands and thousands of other nonfaculty staff payroll; of the many millions the library system pays for journal access alone, let alone special collections and acquisition; of the cost of running the steam for heating the buildings, the computing infrastructure; etc., etc. how non-trivial do you expect this Title IV portion to be?

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by didgeoridoo on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:53AM (#16429408)
Yep. I know several college administrators who have complained that their departments have exploded in size — in one case from five “student life” admins to over 100 — over the past 10 years.

This is caused by external forces like Title IX compliance, but also by the expectation that, since students are now essentially the consumers of a luxury good, they expect impeccable and instantaneous “customer service”.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by adamson on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @10:06AM (#16429917)
I'm not sure how much I buy most of what you're saying beyond in loco parentis causing a ballooning in staff and legal costs. Title IX related activism is a relatively new phenomenon, and I don't think we can attribute older trends in college cost growth to something so nascent (at least in its current form).
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by michaelt on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @09:07AM (#16429501)

  Also, how the hell is college so damn expensive when
  the people teaching classes are paid 12 bucks an hour
Lack of effective price competition.

Imagine I'm the boss of a university, and I push through across-the-board budget cuts of 10%, and cut tuition by 10%. I drop the out-of-state annual price from $25,000 to $22,500.

Am I going to be widely praised for my radical move? Probably not, the price remains extremely high. Are sales going to skyrocket, offsetting the price drop? Probably not, most good universities fill 100% of their places.

Are loads of the colleagues I see on a daily basis going to be mad at me? Quite possibly! Did I take this job because I love slashing budgets for libraries and arts education? Probably not. Is there a risk, due to different departments' abilities to raise funds externally, that some departments will be disproportionately impacted? Absolutely.

If I'm a university boss and I want an easy life, much easier to turn a blind eye to increasing costs.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by PakG1 on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @09:23AM (#16429607)
Hah, that reminds me of the scene in The Wire when a mayoral candidate asks a popular former mayor why he didn't run again. The guy replies that all he did was eat bowls of shit that various constituents brought him every day. One day, it was the police union, then it was the teachers, then it was the ministers, and on and on. By the time his term was up, he realized he didn't mind just being a downtown corporate lawyer with a nice salary.

Some jobs are truly thankless jobs.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by pixl97 on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @01:55PM (#16431907)
This is partially why the people that do run end up being the ones that can profit from being corrupt.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by CJefferson on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @10:01AM (#16429890)
Worse, in the UK universities with lower prices often have trouble filling their places, as applicants assume there must be something wrong with them.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by ashooner on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @10:34AM (#16430146)
The typical comparison of college to today to that from 20 or 30 years ago is just poorly considered. "Where does the money go?" Consider the things that didn't exist at many colleges 30 years ago:

- IT

- Any type of student welfare services.

- Title IX and any other regulatory offices.

- Diversity offices and other efforts.

- Disability services.

- Dedicated police departments.

- Advising, Counseling, and Academic support (because more and lower-qualified students than ever are going to college).

- In the case of state schools, typically significant budget cuts from the state.

I'm not saying these rationally explain the increase in cost, but it's a significant expansion in responsibility and functionality that brought with it administration and bureaucracy.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by toasterlovin on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @11:58AM (#16430859)
In theory, at least, IT should represent cost savings.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by ashooner on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @12:49PM (#16431343)
I can't see how having to support the network infra for 25k students' Netflix addiction is possibly a cost savings.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by toasterlovin on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @01:07PM (#16431499)
IT is more than internet connections. It's also, for instance, reducing your need for employees by having class registration done entirely online.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by ashooner on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @02:56PM (#16432417)
I definitely see the potential for cost savings in some areas, but there are whole sectors of technology activity in a contemporary university that aren't offsetting some pre-digital expense; they're just a reflection of the increased technical cost of instruction and lifestyle.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by toasterlovin on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @05:01PM (#16433387)
Yeah, but the cost of manipulating and transporting information approaches zero over time.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by ocschwar on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @11:56AM (#16430844)
> Also, how the hell is college so damn expensive

It's a positional good, and the buyers are bidding for it using borrowed money, and bidding from a position that is underinformed and cannot be anything but underinformed.

It's the epitome of a bubble.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by AznHisoka on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:38AM (#16429323)
Most of the teachers are also more occupied with doing research than actual teaching.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by HarryHirsch on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @09:40AM (#16429737)
At the Tier 2 regional colleges that people here tout as the alternative to Ivy League universities with astronomical tuition? That's preposterous, you don't even get teaching assistants!

Most people here went do university, and they still have no notion how the sausage is made. Why is that?

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by privong on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @10:00AM (#16429885)
> Most of the teachers are also more occupied with doing research than actual teaching.

This varies wildly across colleges/universities, faculty position, and department. There's enough variation that it's much more nuanced than your statement indicates.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by eurticket on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:31AM (#16429282)
to the top
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by sctb on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @11:03AM (#16430391)
Would you mind please posting substantively?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by nickthemagicman on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:22AM (#16429225)
I feel like you have a bit of an extreme take by saying 'profiting off dreams and naivete'. Uni is excellent for people for so many reasons. The price has gotten out of hand thats for sure. College and education are wonderful things. We just have to make sure it's within reach for everyone
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by CalRobert on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @10:08AM (#16429933)
My stem grad friends are doing well.

My music and archaeology friends are not. Unfortunately, the cult runs so deep that some were convinced the solution to being unemployed was a master's. True, they signed the papers, but a whole industry exists to deceive them.

So, you have 50+k in debt, are in your mid-late 20's, and you:

will not qualify for a mortgage (so you keep paying rent instead of at least buying something with SOME value for that money)

Cannot start any sort of enterprise because you can't save, because your disposable income goes to loans/rent (see above)

Cannot reasonably save for retirement

And god help you if you want a kid or want to save for their college education. We made sure ours is an EU citizen so she doesn't have to deal with quite so much of this bullshit (hopefully).

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by nickthemagicman on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @02:00PM (#16431951)
The problem you're having is not with education itself. But with education AFFORDABILITY.

Music and Archaeology would be incredible majors if the students didn't have to go into debt.

Education, university, and all of the social connections, experiences and knowledge gained are wonderful for a kid in their early 20s and really makes for a well rounded person and betters society by making people good educated citizens.

However the affordability is an issue. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by amorphid on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:44AM (#16429351)
A crushing amount of student loan debt stinks, and so does a low quality degree that teaches little if actual substance. These are not wonderful things.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by nerdponx on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @08:48AM (#16429375)
Not every degree is low quality. I and most of my school friends benefited immeasurably from college education.
Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by notyourday on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @09:15AM (#16429541)
Universities make a boatload more money peddling basket weaving degrees in social sciences, psychology, athlete nutrition, literature of forgotten tribes of Egypt, history of hair weaving vs. engineering because the prices charged are nearly the same while the outlay needed to "train" a person for b.s. degree is smaller.

This means that universities are incentivized to peddle b.s. degrees.

Re:After Decades of Growth, Colleges Find It’s Survival of t... by busterarm on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @09:44AM (#16429772)
I don't know...I still see plenty of STEM grads, even CS grads and even from good schools, doing developer bootcamps.