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Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by docdeek on Monday February 19, 2018 @02:11AM (#16411248)
I’m equal parts fascinated and concerned about this sort of thing. It’s incredible what science is capable of while, at the same time, I wonder if there are adequate limits on such advances. These researchers seem to be responsible (limiting the growth to a certain number of days, applying for permission to extend that limit in the future etc.) but I have a feeling that somewhere there is a scientist whose professional ethics are a little less robust.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by bertil on Monday February 19, 2018 @09:06AM (#16412910)
The main non-theoretical concern over such chimeras is that they could host disease variants and transmit them to humans.

You don’t want to catch foot & month disease. They typically should not leave sterile conditions because of that potential threat. Therefore, having cell-bundles grown in petri dishes and vats is probably preferable than an autonomous live animal.

That takes off a bit of the moral conundrum of having cute animals raised to be sacrificed. Vegetarianism and veganism are getting traction fast, so that could become more controversial. SciFi has explored the possibility of having conscious humans raised for their organs, so you could see an increased awareness in the next decades.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by Pica_soO on Monday February 19, 2018 @03:32PM (#16415502)
Alastair Reynolds introduced us to hyper pigs, beating up humans for a dark past.

On the other hand Uplift made it our duty to raise as many creatures to full awareness as possible.

Which author are you referring to exactly?

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by bertil on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @01:27PM (#16431667)
Nothing very specific in mind, probably www.imdb.com/title/tt0399201/ which I believe is a remake, or was remade, and is also an adaptation.

I can’t remember if Orphan Black is about that.

More recently, Altered Carbon or shorter format I saw on Dust toyed with similar ideas.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by walshemj on Monday February 19, 2018 @07:30AM (#16412451)
Try asking some one whos on the list for a transplant a large number of which die every year because of lack of donors.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by antisocial on Monday February 19, 2018 @12:43PM (#16414317)
Spot on, I just needed a toe fracture to rethink morals and ethics. I am all for humane treatment of animals, am an almost vegan myself, if you can just raise the cute animals in a humane way, I won't object the progress on this development.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by tonyedgecombe on Monday February 19, 2018 @02:34AM (#16411341)
It's a good point although if you are really worried about the ethics then the way we rear animals for food dwarfs this.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by roryisok on Monday February 19, 2018 @06:06AM (#16412159)
And the ethical concern that often goes unmentioned is hope the rearing of animals for food has left barely any room on earth for wild animals. If anyone can find that biomass breakdown chart it's pretty scary. Something like 90% of the biomass on earth is human food
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by RobertoG on Monday February 19, 2018 @06:39AM (#16412281)
Do you mean animal biomass? Even so, I thought that the winners there are insects.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by oldcynic on Monday February 19, 2018 @09:04AM (#16412898)
It may not be the one you were thinking of, but there's an xkcd for that: https://www.xkcd.com/1338/
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by roryisok on Monday February 19, 2018 @09:26AM (#16413028)
It actually was that I was thinking of. And now I feel slightly silly for not only getting a key detail wrong but also using a comic as a source of facts.

I'm sure Randall Munroe did his research but still.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by DennisP on Monday February 19, 2018 @09:43AM (#16413123)
His main source is a book by Vaclav Smil, he cites it at the bottom of the comic.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by adrianN on Monday February 19, 2018 @03:48AM (#16411607)
What are your ethical concerns about this experiment? I don't think sheep with a human pancreas need to be treated differently from sheep with a normal pancreas, ethically speaking. We're not talking about fiddling with the sheep's brains.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by docdeek on Monday February 19, 2018 @04:09AM (#16411689)
I guess it is more a feeling that it'll start with a pancreas and then we'll figure out a way to make other organs, and maybe some human life after that. Perhaps it shouldn't concern me - if I would be fine with a pancreas or a kidney grown in an animal, why not (eventually) a human life in an animal? - but it is still a worry for me right now.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by jessaustin on Monday February 19, 2018 @12:30PM (#16414224)
...why not (eventually) a human life in an animal?

That's an interesting idea. If it's OK to hire humans as surrogates, why couldn't we create an animal to do the job? Especially if an animal with a wider pelvis (e.g. a small cow) were used, it could eventually be made safer than regular human pregnancy.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by shanusmagnus on Monday February 19, 2018 @08:42AM (#16412786)
I think your worries could more profitably be directed to the industrial farming complex as it exists right now.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by ldp01 on Monday February 19, 2018 @04:23AM (#16411749)
Are you suggesting humanity will create real life furries?

I guess it's the sort of thing you can count on someone doing the moment it's possible...

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by matte_black on Monday February 19, 2018 @07:12AM (#16412390)
It would be amazing to generate entirely new organs that don’t exist, to give humans capabilities they never had. I’m all for it.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by Piskvorrr on Monday February 19, 2018 @01:10PM (#16414489)
Building hardware is the easy part. Making it play nice with the firmware (and, um, writing the firmware) is the hard part - we haven't been able to do that well with silicon, so far.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by Cw67NTN8F on Monday February 19, 2018 @05:25AM (#16411989)
>>but I have a feeling that somewhere there is a scientist whose professional ethics are a little less robust.

Butchers seem to have made peace with a few things. The same with their clients, lamb eaters. Let's be honest, at some point we cut corners; diabetes is the new epidemic. Most people, at least in the developed world, can stuff their faces with cheap (and poorer you are, more empty) calories.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by lawlessone on Monday February 19, 2018 @09:24AM (#16413017)
I don't think these are the same kinds of diabetes.

With the kind you get from over indulgence your pancreas is still functional, you just have insulin resistance.

I believe this is to help the other kind of diabetes where you produce no insulin.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by wombatpm on Monday February 19, 2018 @08:41AM (#16412784)
This would be a cure for TYPE I diabetes, not TYPE II. The difference? TYPE I aka juvenile diabetes is an autoimmune disease where the islet cells of the pancreas are targeted and you no longer produce insulin. TYPE II is where the cells in you body become insulin insensitive. TYPE II can be reversed with diet and exercise in its early stages.

Why are they both called diabetes? The consequences are the same, high blood sugar levels causing damage to eyes, kidneys, and peripheral blood flow in limbs. This can cause blindness, kidney failure, and limb amputation and eventually death.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by arkades on Monday February 19, 2018 @12:04PM (#16414032)
Type II diabetes also proceeds over time to a loss of insulin production, but as a consequence of the illness rather than as its core trait.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by konart on Monday February 19, 2018 @04:07AM (#16411682)
>limits

Humanity is just a infant. It's way too early to talk about limits, really.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by Pigo on Monday February 19, 2018 @09:38AM (#16413095)
I have to agree. Of course, I've never had a child dying from organ failure, so I don't think I'd be quick to judge. But there is also a part of me that thinks humans are meant to die, and this kind of science is fueled a lot by fear of the inevitable. The powerful are trying to stave off death until the singularity they believe will happen, and the lengths those kind of people are willing to go scare me. But maybe I'm just thinking that because I watched Altered Carbon.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by bobthechef on Monday February 19, 2018 @10:28AM (#16413412)
While we sympathize with people who have dying children or are dying themselves, being in that position can in fact cause desperation and desperation can warp moral reasoning. In other words, being in a particular position does not necessarily put you in the best position for making the right decision, hence why we often value honest, appropriately competent, impartial advice.

W.r.t. to the moral dimension, there doesn't seems to be enough information in the article to make an assessment either way. If we're destroying fertilized human embryos to obtain stem cells to produce organs, then we are committing something categorically gravely immoral. If we're obtaining cells from the person needing the transplant and coaxing those cells into producing organ tissue, then the moral analysis will depend on contingent factors.

Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by Pigo on Monday February 19, 2018 @02:08PM (#16414900)
I think I wholeheartedly agree with you. I guess my worry, which some people apparently don't think was worth bringing up, is that there are lots of people in this world with no moral analysis going on. I have no doubt there will be scientist following the code determined by society. But there are resourceful people of means who will just go about the business of doing whatever is best for them. The further this science goes, the easier it will be for them. I think of stem cells as this ground-breaking therapy that will one day be put to good use, for Joe Rogan it's something he had done several years ago to fix his shoulder (old news). I'm not saying he did anything questionable, just pointing out that the rich fly abroad to get treatments that are still being debated in the land they live in. I guess I just hope we find a way to toe a moral line that gets followed by peoplekind. Thanks Trudeau
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by scentoni on Monday February 19, 2018 @05:21PM (#16416235)
Most fertilized human eggs don't result in a pregnancy, they either don't implant in the uterus or they spontaneously abort early on. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Spontaneous_abortion_in_humans
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by NeoBasilisk on Monday February 19, 2018 @01:50PM (#16414773)
Humans aren't "meant" for anything.
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by Pigo on Monday February 19, 2018 @02:08PM (#16414905)
Well that's a bleak view
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by Piskvorrr on Tuesday February 20, 2018 @06:22AM (#16419503)
Depends whether you read that as "...therefore useless," or "...therefore must forge their own purpose."
Re:Human-sheep hybrids pave way for diabetes cure and mass o... by NeoBasilisk on Monday February 19, 2018 @05:48PM (#16416390)
It absolutely can seem that way, depending on the worldview you grew up with.